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Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?

6098 messages,  Last post on Aug 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM

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What is this discussion about? Cadillac Escalade, Cadillac XLR, Cadillac STS, Automotive News

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#1811 of 6098 ONE MORE TIME by Mr_Shiftright HOST Jan 13, 2007 (10:58 pm)
Some folks aren't taking the hint about beating the dead horse and so I'm regrettably starting to delete posts that are turning into two-way private arguments. I'll recommend that your regular host and roving host do the same so that the topic doesn't get canned altogether.   I hope we can all settle back down to a level of civility and not crowd everyone out of the room by continual personal arguments.   Once again, Cadillac has been tried and convicted for all crimes in the past and has served its ten year sentence.   Let's get back to the present and hear what you think about Cadillac's present and future.   If you need some suggestions, I'd like to know your thoughts on things like how the public comes to perceive something as a quality product? Does media like TV and movies and music have a lot to do with this? could Lexus or Mercedes fall from grace and Cadillac come out on top? How would that happen? Can you see some other car company seizing a spot in the luxury car field like Lexus did in 1990, maybe with an entirely new brand-name? Does dealer service and dealer image have anything to do nameplate prestige or is mostly all about product? Replies to this message: allargon (Jan 14, 2007 12:15 am) bumpy (Jan 14, 2007 5:58 am) louiswei (Jan 14, 2007 7:41 am)
#1812 of 6098 Never! by andres3 Jan 14, 2007 (12:05 am)
GM and Cadillac will never again be top quality automakers. They are past their prime (which wasn't all that good to begin with).
#1813 of 6098 Re: ONE MORE TIME [Mr_Shiftright] by allargon Jan 14, 2007 (12:15 am)
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jan 13, 2007 10:58 pm) Media has a lot to do with it. Most would argue that hip-hop rescued both Cadillac and Lincoln from obscurity with Escalade and the Navigator, respectively.   I will respond to the above post re: foreign companies importing tried and tested models to the states. Where shall I begin? The Nissan Versa -- a Renault. The Prius was initially tried and tested in Japan before the generation we call the Classic was brought to the States. Heck, even GM is doing so with the Saturn/Opel/Vauxhall Astra.   Back to Cadillac... The new CTS is a good start. I do believe 2009 should bring the new CTS-V and the new SRX. Please, please, please fix the XLR and err... price it properly. A Kappa based ALR with a shoehorned V-6 would be nice. A BRX is already planned. The BLS? Is there a compact RWD platform in GM's profile that would fit it? It could be a small sedan, hatch, etc.   Mercedes is falling from grace on its own. Lexus can't even outsell BMW or Mercedes in Japan. Cadillac can't outsell BMW or Lexus in the US. Cadillac needs put a shotgun in the form of superior products to the head of every other luxury brand and pull the trigger. They have the best large truck based SUV (only Infiniti comes close). However, they lack in every other segment. It's the product plus dealer service that makes a luxury brand great. BTW, I do see Hyundai creating a luxury brand or buying one (Jaguar/Astin Martin/Packard?) and putting even more pressure on the domestics as well as other worldwide luxury brands.
#1814 of 6098 Re: Cadillac & The New World Order [douglasr] by bumpy Jan 14, 2007 (5:40 am)
Replying to: douglasr (Jan 13, 2007 11:03 am) Lexus would be a dead product if it were sustained only by its Japanese sales, (and for which, it was not available in Japan at the outset, allowing them to "dump" them in the U.S. market at $38,500 a copy.)   Lexus LSxxx = Toyota Celsior Lexus GSxxx = Toyota Aristo Lexus SCxxx = Toyota Soarer Lexus ISxxx = Toyota Altezza Lexus ESxxx = Toyota Windom   Toyota finally decided to start selling them as Lexi in Japan last year.
#1815 of 6098 Re: Remembering the past [louiswei] by bumpy Jan 14, 2007 (5:52 am)
Replying to: louiswei (Jan 13, 2007 5:25 pm) A lot of the supposed "they sold at home first" notion comes from the fact that some markets don't have model years like we do in the US. The first S13 Silvias hit the Japanese market in May 1988 and the first 240SXs arrived here around September 1988 as 1989 models. Replies to this message: louiswei (Jan 14, 2007 7:12 am)
#1816 of 6098 Re: ONE MORE TIME [Mr_Shiftright] by bumpy Jan 14, 2007 (5:58 am)
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jan 13, 2007 10:58 pm) Once again, Cadillac has been tried and convicted for all crimes in the past and has served its ten year sentence   Only ten years? Must have gotten time off for good behavior.
#1817 of 6098 Cadillac & NWO III/Never? by douglasr Jan 14, 2007 (6:06 am)
"Never say never..." James Bond once replied...   That holds true in the auto industry. Let's keep in mind that when the British Army of the Rhine occuppied Wolfsburg in June 1945, taking over from the U.S. Army, the factory fell under the command of the Royal Engineers Colonel Michael McEvoy and Major Ivan Hirst. They found the 'beetle' and recognised its inherent traits. Those first cars assembled by the remaining workforce of 450 men to serve the Control Commission for Germany were anything but regarded as having "quality" in our modern sense of the word. Even the "Export" Model did not have chrome bumpers until 1949!   Henry Ford II drove a Beetle in Germany in 1948, adding "Well, at least it's a car..." For various reasons, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, the British Intellegence Operational Service, executives at Ford and even GM dismissed Wolfsburg and the Beetle, along with a bevy of British Motor executives. Leaving Colonel McEvoy and Major Hirst to build cars for the CCG. Servicemen voted with their pocketbooks, later able to "buy" a VW for $630. (Equivalent then in 1946-7 to 100 lite bulbs; 200 tonnes of bricks; or 1,200 English cigarettes---plus 5lbs coffee: what a Beetle was worth in exchange on the black market!) Thus began the story of VW after the war...a car "no one would want", except, it turned out: the people.   VWAG sold more than 3.2Mn cars in Europe last year. Not even Heinz Nordhoff, the first auto executive to take charge of the factory under the aegis of the Royal Engineers and the CCG believed such a goal was ever possible. Certainly not selling 17.2Mn Beetles over more than 30 years.   Given that possibility, anything is achievable. Cadillac could regain that mantle, as GM may well be able to do. It also depends on the competition...hopefully Cadillac will not remain the sole surviving American marque in the luxury market.   DouglasR   (Sources: 'Battle for the Beetle' Karl Ludvigsen with Ivan Hirst, Bentley Publishers, Cambridge, Ma. 2003) Replies to this message: snakeweasel (Jan 14, 2007 7:13 am)
#1818 of 6098 Re: Remembering the past [bumpy] by louiswei Jan 14, 2007 (7:12 am)
Replying to: bumpy (Jan 14, 2007 5:52 am) Yes, I agree on the Versa, 1st gen Prius and the 240SX. However, none of the mainstream cars is "they sold at home first".   To compare Lexus' sales in Japan and Cadillac's in US is totally apples to oranges (at least right now). Cadillac is a long established brand here in its home turf and it got beat by the newcomers like MB, BMW and Lexus. This is the first year Lexus is sold in Japan so its number can only go up not down. We can revisit this issue couple years from now but to use Lexus' first year number is just plainly idiotic.

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