Last post on Nov 09, 2013 at 9:40 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views
What is this discussion about?
Cadillac Escalade, Cadillac XLR, Cadillac STS, Automotive News
Jan 12, 2007 (11:08 am)
Cadillac probably should not have gone FWD in the 80's. Then they spent the 90's trying to convince the magazines that FWD was as good as RWD. On the other hand, then the RWD Fleetwood would probably have continued on as is (as it was to 1996). The advantage now, is that the RWD's are clean sheet designs, so we have the CTS, STS, and SRX sigma platform models. The basic sigma platform is a "sports sedan" vehicle, and not all cars need to be sports sedans. Cadillac needs to do something with the DTS. The CTS will be upgraded for the 2008 model year, the SRX has a new interior for this year, and the STS is probably OK for a short while.
I don't think Cadillac should try for the Rolls market again, like they did with the Eldorado Brougham in the 1950's, or like Mercedes did with the 600. But perhaps something close to the S-class Mercedes is possible, on the sigma platform, if the sigma can accommodate a larger sedan.
#1756 of 6195 Re: . [sls002]
Jan 12, 2007 (12:22 pm)
I would love to see a DTS that was similar to the S-Class. Something like that most definately would become my next car. I'm trying to hold off buying a Cadillac or Buick until they once again build a nice large RWD sedan.
Jan 12, 2007 (12:25 pm)
That's a very good point which I completely forgot about. Going to FWD was probably a marketing error, since all the prestigious cars today are RWD or AWD.
FWD is perceived as somewhat "lower-tier", even though you will occasionally see an "entry level luxury" car with it.
Also FWD requires very careful engineering when you apply too much HP to a chassis.
Jan 12, 2007 (12:44 pm)
Of course, if you want a DTS with a S=class ride, just get a Lucerne CXS in all black. The ride/driving experience is very simmilar to an older late 90s S-Class. Is it world-class now? Of course not. But it doesn't cost $70K either like the old Benzes did.
GM is doing a good job, IMO, with emulating Merdcedes' decade-old technology for half the price, much like how Hyundai is emulating Buick's decade-old technology for half the price. The Kia/Hyundai V6 sedans feel *eerily* like the older early 90s Buicks. Now, it's a serious step down from the newest cars like the Camry V6 and so on, but those old GMs with the 3800 were reliable commuters - and decently safe, too. For $15K or so... yeah, the Hyundais are compelling if you want a box to get around.
But, then, so are GM's better offerings. Sure - it's not the newest technology, but it's reliable, works well, and is loads less money. Let's not forget that the new CTS will start at just over 30K, and with incentives, $30K for a base model will be doable. BMW and Lexus... yeah, right. Incentives? Mercedes? Have they ever offered one on a car? You pay $40K.(the CTS is really a 5 series competitor more than it is a 3 series) I know a lot of people who will gladly take 85% the car Lexus or Mercedes is for 2/3-3/4 of the price and half the cost for repairs.
#1759 of 6195 Re: . [Mr_Shiftright]
Jan 12, 2007 (12:50 pm)
I think Cadillac expected their FWD Fleetwood to take over the RWD Fleetwood market, so that before the end of the 80's the RWD Fleetwood sedan could be discontinued. But the RWD demand continued so Cadillac refreshed it in the early 90's.
Audi has been FWD, but the top end has usually been the AWD version.
That also was my point about the Allante, being a FWD, keeping with Cadillac's direction at the time, it was not going to be a sports car. Cadillac (or GM) designed the northstar FWD system to handle about 300 lb-ft of torque and 300 horsepower without too much torque steer.
#1760 of 6195 Re: . [lemko]
Jan 12, 2007 (12:56 pm)
I think if the DTS is to continue as a big sedan selling about 75,000 or so units annually, then the price tag will have to remain about where it is. This would not be an S-class car.
A Cadillac S-class would have to be much more expensive, and use a very substantial platform, perhaps the sigma. It would have to have a very good interior, as well as enough of the highend tech that make the Lexus LS and Mercedes S-class what they are.
#1761 of 6195 Re: GM's lingering bad reputation [gsemike]
Jan 13, 2007 (2:52 am)
Thank you for your eloquence. Apparently my usual style of writing just flares people's tempers and I wasn't able to explain it in the way that you could. This point needs to come across, because it's time or General Motors to step up to the plate and discontinue it's delusionary ways.
"needing improvements, of which GM is doing amply over the last several years and is continuing today. The future product will kick more butt as they come out."
I swear that every GM apologist must have that tatooed on their bicep. They don't price the cars like they're improving. They price them like they're already world class. How long do they need to get up to snuff? Caddy is the Chicago Cubs of the auto industry with the we'll get em next year crap.
Putting that cheapo interior in the CTS is the equivalent of that guy catching the foul ball. oohh... so close.
#1762 of 6195 Re: Life. Liberty. And the Pursuit. [snakeweasel]
Jan 13, 2007 (3:37 am)
Apparently you don't understand the English language. When I say cheap, I'm referring to the low quality of the materials. That's what cheap means ---(LOW QUALITY). It does not mean gauche or bland or drab or dull as you seem to think it means. The additional meaning of cheap that comes to mind for many when it comes to G.M. is the definition of contemptible. This also is what cheap means. And it definitely in my and many other's opinion applies to this corporation, based on the way they've embarrassed the United States over the last 30 years, and continue to embarrass the region today
I would also like to add, that based on your response many people like to buy style over substance. That's fine, if that's the way they like to buy cars, but these people are the first to complain that people have stopped buying American origin cars over time. And then when G.M. lays thousands of workers off and closes plants, "rips the plug" from the "socket" of pension funds, etc, because they are not selling the plethora of cars they used to America is annoyingly told they should "Buy American". If buying American means I'm supposed to throw my money down the toilet, no thank you.
And would you please tell me why a G.M. assembly line worker expects to make executive level wages and beyond to put together a car?? ($42+ per hour)
They should know better than to put cheap interior in a car like CTS.
Well the 5 series that we looked at wasn't much better. Dull and drab is all that comes to mind for that.
#1763 of 6195 Re: Cadillac vs Mercedes [fintail]
Jan 13, 2007 (3:51 am)
The Allante's execution screamed ridiculous. It was silly and ridiculous. That's why people still talk about it today.
Another reason the Allante is still talked about today is because people really wanted the idea of the Allante to work out. It was a gorgeous looking car and not only gorgeous, but "smart" looking. They missed some of those "smart" points in the rear exterior design, but at the time it looked as if it was a step in the right direction. AND, the interior was "bangin." (something that hasn't been synonymous with the G.M. name)
#1764 of 6195 Re: ... Incentives (pletko)
Jan 13, 2007 (4:15 am)
When you say incentives are you talking about rebates?
. BMW and Lexus... yeah, right. Incentives? Mercedes? Have they ever offered one on a car? You pay $40K.