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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrids - News, Reviews and Views in the Press
567 messages, Last post on Oct 30, 2009 at 9:21 PM
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Let's not turn this discussion into something it's not. There's the off-topic forum where you can get into politics if you want. And PLEASE stop making these things personal. It's hard enough to keep things from spiraling out of control with disagreements about cars. Once you start throwing in personal comments about each other, it's like throwing gasoline on the fire. Thanks for your cooperation and participation |
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Anyone saying a Prius is a "piece of crap" is completely ignoring reality. Certain people might not like the ride, or the seats, or the road noise (which has been measured by multiple car testers as QUIET), but those are the RARE few exceptions to the rule. By rule, a VAST, HUGELY CORRECT majority of Prius owners love their car because of the car. It's a great car. Almost every review on the internet sings it's praises. Is it the perfect car? No. Is it a "driver's car" for people who like speed and the childish delight of taking a corner about 40 Mph faster than the recommended speed? No. Is it a great car for someone who spends all day climbing up and down hills at 70 MPH? No. But for what it is: A midsize car with great storage space, great mileage, great reliability, great resale value, great insulation against rising gas prices, it is a fabulous car.
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Replying to: larsb (May 26, 2009 6:18 am) I have been following this and decided to jump in. Anyone saying a Prius is a "piece of crap" is completely ignoring reality. Not true. What they are saying is that for them, the Prius is a POC. Maybe, it's your dream car. Good enough. For others, it's a POC. That's not ignoring reality, that's expressing an opinion. Certain people might not like the ride, or the seats, or the road noise (which has been measured by multiple car testers as QUIET), but those are the RARE few exceptions to the rule. The first part of your statement is fine but then you add your opinion by adding "RARE". I beg to differ. I know several folks, myself included, who have driven the hybrids (civic, insight, prius) and don't like them. In fact, I don't know anyone who has driven them and likes them. Maybe I know all the rare few exceptions? Is it a "driver's car" for people who like speed and the childish delight of taking a corner about 40 Mph faster than the recommended speed? No. Once again you are inserting your opinion and making an attack on anyone who disagrees. Not exactly objective, or likely to sway anyone to your side. But for what it is: A midsize car with great storage space, great mileage, great reliability, great resale value, great insulation against rising gas prices, it is a fabulous car. For you, it's all those things. That's great. Please don't attempt to put anyone down who doesn't agree with your statements. It detracts from them. Alot.
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Replying to: familydadx4 (May 26, 2009 8:34 am) Not true. What they are saying is that for them, the Prius is a POC. Maybe, it's your dream car. Good enough. For others, it's a POC. That's not ignoring reality, that's expressing an opinion. Disliking a particular car, disliking how it rides or handles, does not turn the car into a "piece of crap." It turns it into a "car you don't like." That's all. Every bit of data available shows the Prius, with exceptions like every other GOOD car, to have good build quality, satisfied owners, and high reliability. That's not opinion, but again facts. The first part of your statement is fine but then you add your opinion by adding "RARE". I beg to differ. I know several folks, myself included, who have driven the hybrids (civic, insight, prius) and don't like them. In fact, I don't know anyone who has driven them and likes them. Maybe I know all the rare few exceptions? Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that I can match thousands of happy owners against your "few" people anytime you want. So, yes, it's RARE. But Kdh can better reply to this, as a car salesman. We should defer to his experience: How many people come in and test drive a Prius and then walk away because they don't like the car? My guess is not many. Most who don't buy after a test drive, I would bet, just want a larger or smaller car based on needs or budgets and just wanted to try a Prius just for the sake of trying it. But for what it is: A midsize car with great storage space, great mileage, great reliability, great resale value, great insulation against rising gas prices, it is a fabulous car. Hard to find anything online or anywhere else that in anything other than small percentages disagrees with the points in that statement. It might be an opinion, but it's based on facts of seeing, meeting, talking to, and communicating with hundreds of Prius owners over the past 5 years, driving and riding in multiple Priuses, and reading virtually every online review posted. A well-educated opinion to say the least. The Prius is not for everyone. But for what it does, it does well. It's not a piece of crap by any definition.
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mini-Review: Lexus HS 250h: It's a hybrid, but it's not a Prius |
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Replying to: larsb (May 26, 2009 9:10 am) You're attempting to take your opinion and make them fact. Thinly veiled facts? Puulease! It's either fact, or opinion, there is no gray. Disliking a particular car, disliking how it rides or handles, does not turn the car into a "piece of crap." It turns it into a "car you don't like." That's all. Now you are trying this into a semantics game? In my opinion, POC equals a car I don't like. Maybe, this is not your definition. Maybe, it's not websters. It is mine. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.  Every bit of data available shows the Prius, with exceptions like every other GOOD car, to have good build quality, satisfied owners, and high reliability. Again, you offer nothing but opinion here (especially if you poll current prius owners). What data? I still don't like it. I still think it's a POC. It definitely ain't for me. It's hideous and over-priced. It can't get out of it's own way. Again, my story and I'm sticking to it. But Kdh can better reply to this, as a car salesman. We should defer to his experience: How many people come in and test drive a Prius and then walk away because they don't like the car? You're not using a proper sample here. Don't you think the majority of people going into a showroom to test a Prius already like it? They're researched it, talked to current owners, etc.. They're already partially\completely sold before they enter the dealership. You could say this about most cars. A better way to express this might be to divide the total number of cars on the road by the number of Prius's (sp?). How many people don't bother to enter the showroom because they don't like it? The Prius is not for everyone. But for what it does, it does well. It's not a piece of crap by any definition. Again, you offer an opinion. Apparently, you love your Prius. There are a few thousand others like you out there. That's ok. Drive well. For me, and for a few of us "rare" folk out there, it's a POC. At least I can admit it's my opinion (and my definition). |
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Replying to: familydadx4 (May 26, 2009 7:19 pm) And of course I do agree with you. I use the term POC very loosely to describe most anything I don't like. The hybrids and the Prius in particular. That does not mean that I have not recommended it to a narrow band of friends with a need that it fits. I find it fits a very narrow spectrum of the car buying public. Update on my pastor friend headed to Maui. I suggested he go to Toyota finance and be a little more aggressive in explaining his situation. Also not to talk to anyone below the top person. He did and they offered a very favorable finance package that got him out of that horrible lease. He will be taking the Prius to Maui. Which is about as good as he can get for over there. Not as good as a Jetta TDI, but he already has the Prius.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 26, 2009 8:25 pm) I've been looking at the Jetta tdi. Very nice. It is just a little beyond my price point. Although, I'm very tempted. I've decided to wait until the end of the year. I'm hoping the new Golf tdi comes in sub 20k. Any idea if the Golf tdi will hit my price point, and if it will come in before year end? Unfortunately, VW is usually mysterious about this stuff. Glad to hear you minister friend is doing well. The Prius would be a good choice for the Islands. Top speed over there is 45 mph? |
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Replying to: familydadx4 (May 26, 2009 7:19 pm) What data? Are you kidding me? Are you new to the hybrid world? The Prius has won multiple "Car of the Year" awards, has been rated as one of the best-liked and most reliable car by every owner survey ever published, ANYWHERE, and has turned the whole car world on it's ear. Hideous and over-priced STILL DOES NOT MAKE IT A PIECE OF CRAP. Just stop saying that - it's ridiculous. "Piece of Crap" - usually defined as something which is built poorly, falls apart, does not perform it's designed duties, etc. In the car world, it would be defined as a car which breaks down a lot or is in the shop a lot, or is poorly built, or which has cheap components which break easily and frequently, or otherwise is a pain to own and maintain. And I can tell you WITH 100% CERTAINTY that a Prius does not fit any of those definitions. You can dislike it all you want - but a piece of crap, it's not. Give it up. Awards: * 1997–98 Car of the Year Japan[146] * 2003 Scientific American names Toyota Motor Corporation as "Business Leader of the Year" ("Scientific American 50"; December, 2003) for its singular accomplishment in the commercialization of affordable hybrid cars. * Motor Trend Car of the Year, 2004[19] * Car and Driver magazine's Ten Best list for 2004. * North American Car of the Year award for 2004. Nominated in 2001. * International Engine of the Year for 2004. * "Best Engineered Vehicle for 2004" by SAE's Automotive Engineering International magazine.[147] * 2005 European Car of the Year (406 points, ahead of Citroën C4 with 267 points and Ford Focus II with 228).[148] * 2006 EnerGuide Award (Midsize)[149] * 2006 Intellichoice Best Overall Value of the Year, Midsize[150] * 2007 Intellichoice Best in Class Winner :Best Retained Value, Lowest Fuel, Lowest Operating Costs, Lowest Ownership Costs[151] * Swiss government named Toyota Prius the world's greenest car in a draft study of over 6,000 cars.[152] * Green Engine of the Year 2008 from International Engine of the Year Awards.[153] * 2008 Nominated for WhatGreenCar.com Car of the Year Awards 2008, shortlisted for the UK's top Green Car Awards * JD Power and Associates "Most Dependable Compact Car" for 2008[154] and 2009[155] Prius Toyota Prius buyers are the most satisfied vehicle owners, according to Consumer Reports testers and consumers who rated vehicle reliability in a new study released on Thursday. The Chevrolet Corvette took 2nd place in the satisfaction poll. Perfect car? Of course not. Are you allowed to dislike it. OF COURSE YOU ARE. But a piece of crap? No Flippin Way.
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Replying to: familydadx4 (May 26, 2009 7:19 pm) Larsb was assuming that you would have been aware of the reliability ratings and JD Power surveys concerning the Prius. This is the data and facts that show that it's not a POC from a neutral perspective. In the latest Consumer Report annual survey the No 1 rated family vehicle in N America is the Prius. This measures dependability, reliability and cost effectiveness ( different than acquisition cost ). In JD Power's survey of owners who would 're-up' on the same vehicle the leading vehicle is the Prius with 93% of owners saying that they would. The Corvette is 2nd at 92% and the Mini is third at 91%. In every measure the Prius is the most fuel efficient high-volume vehicle on the road in N America. Now subjective measures such as yours are equally valid but that doesn't classify the vehicle as a POC. It only says that in your opinion you don't like it. The other measures indicate that it's far from POC-status. Those are the facts. |
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