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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrids - News, Reviews and Views in the Press
567 messages, Last post on Oct 30, 2009 at 9:21 PM
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Apr 30, 2009 11:04 am) "But Chrysler's future seems to rest on the politics of small, fuel-efficient cars and protection of union labor. Washington doesn't seem to understand that no auto company, not Toyota, not Honda, not Hyundai or Kia or Ford, earns a profit on their small cars." Toyota has publicly justified it's willingness to sell its patented hybrid technology to others on the need to recoup the huge capital costs involved. Maybe they have by now. I don't know. But we know that Detroit has long acknowledged their inability to make money on small cars. And other auto commentators remain convinced that the Prius has yet to make money. The issue is at least in doubt. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Apr 30, 2009 11:40 am) There were hybrid enthusiast on this forum that claimed Toyota was making a profit on the first Prius sold here. I have to agree with those that claim it is an unknown. We do know someone is losing billions on the cars sitting in huge lots. How many 1000s are Prius? How many of those expensive batteries will be ruined just sitting for months on end without being kept charged up? I know my friend that has been screwed by Toyota finance on his Prius will never buy another Toyota. I suggested a Jetta TDI when he gets settled into his pastorate in Maui. I probably own the last Toyota I will ever buy. They are suffering from the same arrogance that has brought GM to its knees. |
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Replying to: gagrice (May 02, 2009 7:29 pm)
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Replying to: larsb (May 03, 2009 4:55 am) The big Island does not have the supply of biodiesel available on Maui at this time. Making it less desirable. Not many places on any of the islands for going in excess of 55 MPH. In all fairness the Prius was a good option for Hawaii. Too bad Toyota has such a worthless financial arm. Toyota will not allow lease transfers to other states. Sadly they owe too much to get a loan. And are not in any financial position to buy the Prius. It is on a 5 year lease similar to the SubPrime lending mess. Toyota needs to be investigated by the lending regulators.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 02, 2009 7:29 pm) There were hybrid enthusiast on this forum that claimed Toyota was making a profit on the first Prius sold here. I have to agree with those that claim it is an unknown. We do know someone is losing billions on the cars sitting in huge lots. How many 1000s are Prius? How many of those expensive batteries will be ruined just sitting for months on end without being kept charged up? I know my friend that has been screwed by Toyota finance on his Prius will never buy another Toyota. I suggested a Jetta TDI when he gets settled into his pastorate in Maui. I probably own the last Toyota I will ever buy. They are suffering from the same arrogance that has brought GM to its knees. I made that claim in a number of different places including here because it has to do with the specific rules of accounting. That was my major in college many years ago but the basic rules haven't changed much at all. It has to do with accruals. That's why I said several posts back that it's an interesting discussion and the numbers show that the vehicle was profitable from the beginning, maybe not the first year but certainly from the beginning of this Generation onward. What Maryann Keller doesn't understand apparently is the concept of 'breakeven' or how the rules of cost accounting are applied to a manufactured product. I know that you have had a burr in your saddle since forever against Toyota. I haven't. Such is life our experiences balance out each other.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 03, 2009 7:27 am) There are also websites which facilitate people picking up other people's car leases which they cannot keep, for whatever reason. It worked out great for me. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (May 03, 2009 2:46 pm) The Honda Insight, the Toyota Prius and profits Posted by: Ian Rowley on April 28 "Ask a Toyota or Honda executive how much their respective companies make per hybrid car and you’re unlikely to get a straight answer. Indeed, it was progress of sorts a couple of years back when Toyota began saying that the Prius, which debuted in Japan over a decade ago, had begun contributing to the bottom line. Honda, meanwhile, prefers to point out that with the Insight it achieved its aim of reducing the cost of its Integrated Motor Assist hybrid system to below $2,000. All of which makes some of the claims in an article in Monday’s Nihon Keizai newspaper interesting. Without citing sources, the paper reports that the gross profit on the new Honda Insight is 300,000 yen (a little over $3,000) per vehicle—or a gross profit margin of 15%. If that sounds high, in accounting terms, gross profit equals the difference between revenue and the cost of making a product and, therefore, ignores lots of other costs. Still, the 15% figure puts the Insight on a par with a Fit compact in terms of profitability per vehicle. Of course, that’s much less profit per car than it gets from selling an Accord or an Acura but, with Honda aiming for 200,000 Insight sales a year, it at least helps shore up finances in these difficult times. (Honda today announced a net profit of $1.4 billion for the fiscal year just ended, but notched up a $1.9 billion loss in the January-to-March quarter). Also of note is that the new Prius may be less profitable than its smaller rival. The Nikkei adds that the gross profit margin on the latest Prius, which goes on sale in Japan in May for as little as $21,000, is likely to be in single digits this year."
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Replying to: lzc (May 04, 2009 8:01 am) Honda's system is very elegant in that it's a low cost effective system that does a great job for small light vehicles. It has a smaller battery and a low-powered e-motor. It's a very good engineering design. It is limited until further notice to vehicles about the size of the Civic. The Toyota system is larger, more powerful and more effective for a wider range of vehicles. It also costs more with a larger battery pack and two more powerful e-motors. But the revenue is significantly higher for an HSD vehicle than for an IMA vehicle. The key question is 'What about the amortization of the development costs?' This depends solely on ... VOLUME. The direct variable costs are well covered in the selling prices. These are well known from comparable vehicles. Regarding Gross Margins, here is the latest info as reported by Forbes from 12/08. TM Margins and Ratios
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Replying to: kdhspyder (May 04, 2009 10:26 am) I think I like my Ford (F) purchase at $1.76 per share. I look for the Ford Fusion Hybrid to be a winner if they can get the parts away from the suppliers controlled by Toyota. |
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Why would it be when you have so many good choices that get better mileage? Much has been written about the Insight, Honda’s new low-priced hybrid. We’ve been told how much carbon dioxide it produces, how its dashboard encourages frugal driving by glowing green when you’re easy on the throttle and how it is the dawn of all things. The beginning of days. So here goes. It’s terrible. Biblically terrible. Possibly the worst new car money can buy. It’s the first car I’ve ever considered crashing into a tree, on purpose, so I didn’t have to drive it any more. The biggest problem, and it’s taken me a while to work this out, because all the other problems are so vast and so cancerous, is the gearbox. For reasons known only to itself, Honda has fitted the Insight with something called constantly variable transmission (CVT). It doesn’t work. Put your foot down in a normal car and the revs climb in tandem with the speed. In a CVT car, the revs spool up quickly and then the speed rises to match them. It feels like the clutch is slipping. It feels horrid. And the sound is worse. The Honda’s petrol engine is a much-shaved, built-for-economy, low-friction 1.3 that, at full chat, makes a noise worse than someone else’s crying baby on an airliner. It’s worse than the sound of your parachute failing to open. Really, to get an idea of how awful it is, you’d have to sit a dog on a ham slicer. So you’re sitting there with the engine screaming its head off, and your ears bleeding, and you’re doing only 23mph because that’s about the top speed, and you’re thinking things can’t get any worse, and then they do because you run over a small piece of grit. Because the Honda has two motors, one that runs on petrol and one that runs on batteries, it is more expensive to make than a car that has one. But since the whole point of this car is that it could be sold for less than Toyota’s Smugmobile, the engineers have plainly peeled the suspension components to the bone. The result is a ride that beggars belief. There’s more. Normally, Hondas feel as though they have been screwed together by eye surgeons. This one, however, feels as if it’s been made from steel so thin, you could read through it. And the seats, finished in pleblon, are designed specifically, it seems, to ruin your skeleton. This is hairy-shirted eco-ism at its very worst. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article6294116.ece My feelings toward the whole genre. 
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