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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrids - News, Reviews and Views in the Press
567 messages, Last post on Oct 30, 2009 at 9:21 PM
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Replying to: yerth10 (May 01, 2009 7:32 pm) Both Toyota and Honda are in the process of doing just that. The new Insight II is the same technology as the HCH but the Insight II is about $2000 less than the HCH. Toyota added sticker discounts to the 2009 Prius of ~$500 to $1000. Then it added a $1000 rebate. Then it published the 2010 prices and these are ~$300-$500 lower yet in MSRP. IOW the new 2010 full MSRP on a standard model will be about $2000 lower than the similar vehicle sold last summer. Hybrid premium goodbye. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Apr 30, 2009 11:04 am) "But Chrysler's future seems to rest on the politics of small, fuel-efficient cars and protection of union labor. Washington doesn't seem to understand that no auto company, not Toyota, not Honda, not Hyundai or Kia or Ford, earns a profit on their small cars." Toyota has publicly justified it's willingness to sell its patented hybrid technology to others on the need to recoup the huge capital costs involved. Maybe they have by now. I don't know. But we know that Detroit has long acknowledged their inability to make money on small cars. And other auto commentators remain convinced that the Prius has yet to make money. The issue is at least in doubt. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Apr 30, 2009 11:40 am) There were hybrid enthusiast on this forum that claimed Toyota was making a profit on the first Prius sold here. I have to agree with those that claim it is an unknown. We do know someone is losing billions on the cars sitting in huge lots. How many 1000s are Prius? How many of those expensive batteries will be ruined just sitting for months on end without being kept charged up? I know my friend that has been screwed by Toyota finance on his Prius will never buy another Toyota. I suggested a Jetta TDI when he gets settled into his pastorate in Maui. I probably own the last Toyota I will ever buy. They are suffering from the same arrogance that has brought GM to its knees. |
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Replying to: gagrice (May 02, 2009 7:29 pm)
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Replying to: larsb (May 03, 2009 4:55 am) The big Island does not have the supply of biodiesel available on Maui at this time. Making it less desirable. Not many places on any of the islands for going in excess of 55 MPH. In all fairness the Prius was a good option for Hawaii. Too bad Toyota has such a worthless financial arm. Toyota will not allow lease transfers to other states. Sadly they owe too much to get a loan. And are not in any financial position to buy the Prius. It is on a 5 year lease similar to the SubPrime lending mess. Toyota needs to be investigated by the lending regulators.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 02, 2009 7:29 pm) There were hybrid enthusiast on this forum that claimed Toyota was making a profit on the first Prius sold here. I have to agree with those that claim it is an unknown. We do know someone is losing billions on the cars sitting in huge lots. How many 1000s are Prius? How many of those expensive batteries will be ruined just sitting for months on end without being kept charged up? I know my friend that has been screwed by Toyota finance on his Prius will never buy another Toyota. I suggested a Jetta TDI when he gets settled into his pastorate in Maui. I probably own the last Toyota I will ever buy. They are suffering from the same arrogance that has brought GM to its knees. I made that claim in a number of different places including here because it has to do with the specific rules of accounting. That was my major in college many years ago but the basic rules haven't changed much at all. It has to do with accruals. That's why I said several posts back that it's an interesting discussion and the numbers show that the vehicle was profitable from the beginning, maybe not the first year but certainly from the beginning of this Generation onward. What Maryann Keller doesn't understand apparently is the concept of 'breakeven' or how the rules of cost accounting are applied to a manufactured product. I know that you have had a burr in your saddle since forever against Toyota. I haven't. Such is life our experiences balance out each other.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 03, 2009 7:27 am) There are also websites which facilitate people picking up other people's car leases which they cannot keep, for whatever reason. It worked out great for me. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (May 03, 2009 2:46 pm) The Honda Insight, the Toyota Prius and profits Posted by: Ian Rowley on April 28 "Ask a Toyota or Honda executive how much their respective companies make per hybrid car and you’re unlikely to get a straight answer. Indeed, it was progress of sorts a couple of years back when Toyota began saying that the Prius, which debuted in Japan over a decade ago, had begun contributing to the bottom line. Honda, meanwhile, prefers to point out that with the Insight it achieved its aim of reducing the cost of its Integrated Motor Assist hybrid system to below $2,000. All of which makes some of the claims in an article in Monday’s Nihon Keizai newspaper interesting. Without citing sources, the paper reports that the gross profit on the new Honda Insight is 300,000 yen (a little over $3,000) per vehicle—or a gross profit margin of 15%. If that sounds high, in accounting terms, gross profit equals the difference between revenue and the cost of making a product and, therefore, ignores lots of other costs. Still, the 15% figure puts the Insight on a par with a Fit compact in terms of profitability per vehicle. Of course, that’s much less profit per car than it gets from selling an Accord or an Acura but, with Honda aiming for 200,000 Insight sales a year, it at least helps shore up finances in these difficult times. (Honda today announced a net profit of $1.4 billion for the fiscal year just ended, but notched up a $1.9 billion loss in the January-to-March quarter). Also of note is that the new Prius may be less profitable than its smaller rival. The Nikkei adds that the gross profit margin on the latest Prius, which goes on sale in Japan in May for as little as $21,000, is likely to be in single digits this year."
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Replying to: lzc (May 04, 2009 8:01 am) Honda's system is very elegant in that it's a low cost effective system that does a great job for small light vehicles. It has a smaller battery and a low-powered e-motor. It's a very good engineering design. It is limited until further notice to vehicles about the size of the Civic. The Toyota system is larger, more powerful and more effective for a wider range of vehicles. It also costs more with a larger battery pack and two more powerful e-motors. But the revenue is significantly higher for an HSD vehicle than for an IMA vehicle. The key question is 'What about the amortization of the development costs?' This depends solely on ... VOLUME. The direct variable costs are well covered in the selling prices. These are well known from comparable vehicles. Regarding Gross Margins, here is the latest info as reported by Forbes from 12/08. TM Margins and Ratios
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Replying to: kdhspyder (May 04, 2009 10:26 am) I think I like my Ford (F) purchase at $1.76 per share. I look for the Ford Fusion Hybrid to be a winner if they can get the parts away from the suppliers controlled by Toyota. |
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