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Hybrids - News, Reviews and Views in the Press

567 messages,  Last post on Oct 30, 2009 at 9:21 PM

You are in the Hybrid Vehicles Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer

What is this discussion about? Toyota Camry Hybrid, Toyota Highlander Hybrid, Honda Civic, Hybrid Cars

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#495 of 567 Re: More details [pf_flyer] by kdhspyder Feb 04, 2009 (12:12 pm)
Replying to: pf_flyer (Feb 04, 2009 11:14 am) I posted this over on the Toyota 2009 thread...   In brief discussions with Toyota personell at the Prius preview to the DC Auto show they noted that PHEVs will be part of the mix in the future but at the moment there just isn't that much money to be made from them.   IOW they don't see much urgency to rush any PHEV vehicle to market because the vast vast vast majority of the US population is not ready technologically nor from a usage pov. The technology must progress and the public must get a taste for what these vehicles can do but how many will actually be sold? Not many. 'Not many' means not much money to be made.
#496 of 567 They should have put a diesel in this one by larsb Mar 12, 2009 (7:07 am)
They don't say if this is a diesel hybrid, and turns out it's not, but it SHOULD BE DARNIT !!!   VW Touareg Hybrid Replies to this message: gagrice (Mar 13, 2009 1:00 pm)
#497 of 567 Re: They should have put a diesel in this one [larsb] by gagrice Mar 13, 2009 (1:00 pm)
Replying to: larsb (Mar 12, 2009 7:07 am) The TSI is a gas engine. Too bad so sad. They are supposed to be delivering the Touareg V6 TDI to dealers this Spring. Uses Urea so is off my list. Watching for a used ML320 CDI to get my diesel SUV. The others are all Urea and trouble in the making.
#498 of 567 Are hybrids on their death bed? by gagrice Mar 17, 2009 (5:08 am)
Hybrid car sales go from 60 to 0 at breakneck speed   By Ken Bensinger March 17, 2009 The Ford and Honda hybrids due out this month are among dozens planned for the coming years as automakers try to meet new fuel-efficiency standards and please politicians overseeing the industry's multibillion-dollar bailout.   Unfortunately for the automakers, hybrids are a tough sell these days.   In July, U.S. Toyota dealers didn't have enough Prius models in stock to last two days, and many were charging thousands of dollars above sticker price for the few they had.   Today there are about 80 days' worth on hand, and dealers are working much harder -- even with the help of $500 factory rebates -- to move the egg-shaped gas-savers off lots from Santa Monica to Miami.   This month, Honda is offering $2,000 in cash, financing and leasing incentives to buyers of the formerly sold-out Civic hybrid, while a dealer in northern Michigan is dangling $6,000 cash back to those willing to buy a hulking Chevy Tahoe hybrid.   The hybrid flood marks a lasting commitment to a powertrain technology that currently represents only about 2% of U.S. vehicle sales and, by most accounts, is deeply unprofitable.   Toyota said last year that it was finally making money on the Prius after nearly a decade producing it, but executives at other automakers acknowledge that they lose money on every hybrid sold. "If we were making money on the Civic hybrid, we weren't making a lot," Honda spokesman Chris Martin said.   http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hybrid17-2009mar17,0,6682265.story Replies to this message: larsb (Mar 17, 2009 6:59 am)
#499 of 567 by michaeldoherty Mar 17, 2009 (5:17 am)
Of course the car makers were losing money on hybrids at first. They had to re-coup the cost of researching the new engines. Honda and Toyota are making money off their hybrid cars now, and Ford is about to with the release of their two new hybrids.   As for hybrid sales dropping off, run a comparison of how bad sales are overall, then compare them to the dropoff in hybrid sales. Hybrids are actually increasing their market share even as sales drop because the rest of the market is so bad.   As for talking about the GM hybrids and equating them to Toyota or Honda's.... Chrysler had to stop making the two-mode SUV hybrid because of bad sales. We'll have to see if GM ends up doing the same.   If GM built a fuel efficient hybrid car, they'd probably see the sales figures Toyota is seeing. Replies to this message: gagrice (Mar 17, 2009 5:30 am) kdhspyder (Mar 17, 2009 5:36 am) bamacar (Mar 21, 2009 8:06 pm) and 1 more...
#500 of 567 Re: [michaeldoherty] by gagrice Mar 17, 2009 (5:30 am)
Replying to: michaeldoherty (Mar 17, 2009 5:17 am) As for hybrid sales dropping off, run a comparison of how bad sales are overall, then compare them to the dropoff in hybrid sales. Hybrids are actually increasing their market share even as sales drop because the rest of the market is so bad.   Not according to the LA Times article I just posted. The hybrids are sitting 80 days on the lots. It is not good for the high priced battery to sit for long periods of time. They will deteriorate if not kept charged. I doubt Toyota is sending charging units to the overflow lots with thousands of cars to charge those batteries. It will not be a problem for the buyers other than premature failure of the battery and the hassle of waiting for a replacement.   A complete discharge of a cell until it goes into polarity reversal can cause permanent damage to the cell   NiMH cells historically had a somewhat higher self-discharge rate (equivalent to internal leakage)   The rate is strongly affected by the temperature at which the batteries are stored with cooler storage temperatures leading to slower discharge rate and longer battery life. The highest capacity cells on the market (> 8000mAh) are reported to have the highest self-discharge rates. wiki Replies to this message: kdhspyder (Mar 17, 2009 5:36 am) bamacar (Mar 21, 2009 8:06 pm) kdhspyder (Mar 22, 2009 4:41 am)
#501 of 567 Re: [gagrice] by kdhspyder Mar 17, 2009 (5:36 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Mar 17, 2009 5:30 am) While the hybrids are being affected by the downturn like every other vehicle on the market they are being affected somewhat less. Not much but somewhat less. 80 days is not optimal but it's better than 90 or 120 or even 360 days like some other models. Replies to this message: bamacar (Mar 21, 2009 8:06 pm) kdhspyder (Mar 22, 2009 4:41 am)
#502 of 567 Re: Are hybrids on their death bed? [gagrice] by larsb Mar 17, 2009 (6:59 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Mar 17, 2009 5:08 am) Gary, you will beat hybrids to a death bed.
#503 of 567 Re: [kdhspyder] by bamacar Mar 21, 2009 (8:06 pm)
Replying to: kdhspyder (Mar 17, 2009 5:36 am) Although the market for hybrids may be slightly better than for nonhybrids, there is no doubt that since last summer the hybrids are massively more affected by the recent downturn. If Hybrids went from 2 days to 80 days on the lots and nonhybrids went form 80-100 to 90-120, which was more affected? Replies to this message: kdhspyder (Mar 22, 2009 4:41 am)
#504 of 567 Re: [bamacar] by kdhspyder Mar 22, 2009 (4:41 am)
Replying to: bamacar (Mar 21, 2009 8:06 pm) Yes those numbers are true but last summer was an aberation. More typically Toyota and Honda stores have inventory levels that are at 30 days of sales in normal times. Our typical rate as an average of all vehicles, fast movers and slow movers, is about 25 days of sales on hand.

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