Last post on Aug 22, 2010 at 7:13 PM
You are in the Mazda Mazda5
What is this discussion about?
Mazda MAZDA5, Kia Rondo, Car Comparisons, Car Buying, Wagon
#467 of 859 Re: I'm sorry, but... [conwelpic]
Jun 17, 2008 (12:39 pm)
FINALLY! A well-thought out, intelligent, informative response. Thank you, Conwelpic. I truly appreciate it.
Now, as a response to your responses:
Aux port - Nevertheless, the Rondo I rented didn't have one and the rental papers did say 2008. Maybe it was an anomaly?
Seats - seems there is a discrepancy between LX and EX models where the LX's have cheap, easily-stained materials and not so comfortable seats. Sucks to be an LX owner, then! In the M5 you get the same seat quality in ALL trims, with the exception of the leather offered on the GT.
Steering - there's no other way for me to explain this other than to say that it felt like a rubber band. It didn't have a leather covering (LX), and as soon as you steered it, the wheel would almost snap back like a rubber band. It didn't have much road feel and just felt very cheap. Others in my group drove it, and also concurred.
Turning Circle - According to an EDMUNDS comparison: Mazda 5 Turning Circle 34.8ft / Kia Rondo Turning Circle 36.1ft. End.
Suspension - Have you actually extensively driven a 2008 5 as I did the Rondo? If you did, then you wouldn't have argued this. The ride on the 5 is superior to that of the Rondos. I regularly carry 4 to 6 passengers in my 5 and never have I experienced the bottoming out and the harshness that I experienced in the Rondo. I still feel the Rondo's ride is like a mirage: it gave the first impression of being comfortable, but fell apart as the bumps came - esp. w/ a full-load. Hey, just talk to the girls who were sitting in the third row of the Rondo and ask them how their hineys felt after their ride! Poor things.
Handling - Again, have you extensively driven the 5? The 5 handles much better than the Rondo, a fact that even other Rondo owners have attested to. Once you get spoiled with the handling of the 5, it's hard to drive anything else that doesn't meet or surpass it. And, yes, I felt the Rondo's handling to be sloppy and roll-heavy.
Fuel Economy - EPA for 5: 21/27. EPA for Rondo: 19/26. Regardless of your individual experience, the fact remains that the 5 is more economical with fuel. Though I did, at one point, have 7 passengers in the Rondo, it was exactly that...at one point. The rest of the trip was mostly just my wife and I, and still the Rondo got worse fuel economy than the 5. Point, blank, period.
Cruise Control - Again, Edmunds comparison: Mazda 5 SPORT (the cheapest trim) - "Cruise Control: Cruise Control". Kia Rondo LX - "Cruise Control: Not Available". End. (Besides, I'm in the US, not Canada.)
Looks - You're right. This is entirely subjective. But, hey, there are Studebaker, Gremlin, Yugo, Aztek, Prius (and, now add Rondo) owners out there who think their cars look hot, too! There is such a thing as bad taste regardless of subjectivity. Not saying YOU have bad taste, I don't know you and won't pre-judge like that, but most people I have talked to about the Rondo agree in saying that the Rondo ranges from outright "ugly" to "dorky" to, at most, just "cute". But, you're allowed to like whatever you want to like, my fellow intelligent forum poster friend you!
All in all, I'm glad you enjoy your Rondo and are happy with your decision. All I am saying in this Mazda5 VS. Kia Rondo forum, where most people are missing out on the whole VS part of the equation, is that the 5 is still a better car regardless of it being ever so slightly smaller on the inside.
(BTW, just so you know, leather steering wheel and shift knob, electroluminescent gauges, sunroof, 6 cd/mp3 capacity, rear spoiler, fog lights, side skirts, 17" rims, cruise control, steering wheel audio controls, truly useful and spacious middle row underseat "secret" storage compartments (to compensate for flimsy door pockets that Rondo's have), 5-speed auto trans w/manual mode, Automatic climate control, external temperature gauge, DVD-player and more are all either standard or available on the lowest to middle trim ranges of the 5 here in the USA - Sport and Touring. The Grand Touring has even more stuff. But, I know that bells and whistles don't make a car better, its engineering, performance and quality does)
#468 of 859 Re: Nissmazlover seems to want to take over this thread? [bgw]
Jun 17, 2008 (12:59 pm)
It's just a forum on competing cars. As the opposing side, I am, therefore, competing with yours. That's all. Nothin' more, nothin' less. I'm not "hating" on you...I'm "hating" on the Rondo. Learn how to separate the two.
For your sake, I think we should all hold hands and sing:
"Shiny, happy people holding hands..."
Anyone know REM's phone number?
#469 of 859 Re: To nissmazlover [tmurphy]
Jun 17, 2008 (1:01 pm)
#470 of 859 Re: To nissmazlover [coolmazda5]
Jun 17, 2008 (1:06 pm)
You're so bad!
Hey, we've been called "buddies" out there. Wonder Mazda 5 twins...UNITE!
#471 of 859 Re: I'm sorry, but... [nissmazlover]
Jun 17, 2008 (4:19 pm)
Not sure where you're looking on Edmund's when you say that the turning circle is 36.1 ft as that is false, here is what is posted on the Edmund's site Turning Circle: 34.4 ft. which differs from the Kia site that says 35.4 ft and 36.1 ft with the 17" wheels I've driven both vehicles and each has their good and bad points to them, in the end it boils down to what suits you best. One thing I didn't like in the Mazda is that I was told on an oil change unless you order the oil filter and do it yourself you have to take it in to the dealer which surprised me. I would not recommend any adult try to sit in the third row of either vehicle, pure torture in both in my humble opinion. Personally I like both vehicles and no I'm not delusional because I happen to like both
#472 of 859 Uhhmmm....gentlemen?
by Karen@Edmunds HOST
Jun 17, 2008 (5:23 pm)
First, I apologize for not stepping in sooner, but I was away for a few days and just now catching up.
Second, the personal jabs and insults stop now. This is about the vehicles, not each other. Just because someone doesn't share the same love you have for your chosen vehicle does not give you any right to ridicule and belittle them. If it continues, your participation in this discussion will be restricted.
Third, for clarification, this topic resides in the Mazda5 group, but is also linked to Kia Rondo. I am the host here.
Thanks for your future cooperation.
Jun 17, 2008 (5:32 pm)
All of the pro-Mazda5 arguments would not convince me, no matter how many or what type. No amount of data, no mountain of reviews, no politeness or assertiveness will make me want or drive a 5. I tested one the same amount I tested the Rondo before I bought the Rondo. The 5 would not and never will grow on me, nor my wife nor our kids. It just didn't please us and that's what choice is all about. The 5 didn't "suck", it didn't do anything poorly, we just didn't like it. (It didn't help any that the Mazda5 exhaust-related fires happened right when I started shopping and sales were halted for a LONG time to fix that little "feature".)
Now, for those so incredibly pleased with your choice of a 5 over a Rondo, I am happy for you. There is a forum for you folks that is not on the "Rondo Forum", and that's over on the Mazda 5 forum:
We won't bother you there. Or, at least I won't, since I could not possibly care less about Mazdas or even if there are any.
#474 of 859 So anything exciting happened here lately?
Jun 17, 2008 (11:07 pm)
Many months ago, I cross-shopped the Rondo and Mazda5. I bought the Rondo. The deciding factors were that the Rondo could seat up to seven on the odd occasion and I preferred a bench in the second row. If the Mazda5 had this, I would have purchased the 5 based on reputation alone (i.e., Mazda having a better rep pretty much by default in most people's minds).
So that's basically why I didn't buy the "better car."
If you check out the Kia forums, you'll notice others who also cross-shopped the Rondo and Mazda5 and obviously bought the Rondo (just as I'm sure there are cross-shoppers who frequent the Mazda forums who ended up with the 5). I can't really speak for all those Rondo owners who decided not to buy the "better car." Why? Because there doesn't seem to be a common thread. In my mind, I thought most people would choose the Rondo based on the same reasons as why I ultimately chose it (i.e., the second-row bench and seating for seven). As it turns out, I seem to be the only one who ever mentions that as the deciding factor.
Over at the Kia forums, you'll find Rondo owners in their 20's to Rondo owners in their 70's. You'll find Rondo owners with young kids and Rondo owners with grown kids and Rondo owners with no kids. From all walks of life. But why would a guy in his twenties decide to buy a Rondo instead of the "cooler car"? Why would a mom with two young'uns decide to buy a Rondo instead of the car with sliding doors and two captain's chairs in the middle row? I don't know. Ask them.
Actually, just a few weeks ago, I recommended to a mom that she shouldn't buy a Rondo.
She is a young married mother with a tween, a toddler and another one on the way. She was looking at a GMC Acadia because of the room, the second-row captain's chairs and, yes, the looks. But she's also a new driver, so she didn't want to buy a huge vehicle, especially a minivan.
I told her that with three kids, the Rondo probably would be too small and, despite her preference, a not-so-minivan would best suit her needs. If she were steadfast about buying a smaller vehicle, I recommended that she should look at the Mazda5 because it has (like the Acadia) second-row captain's chairs plus sliding doors.
She posted later and said that they had just test driven a Mazda5. She liked its looks and the seating, but she hated the way it drove (believe it or not) and thought it was too small inside. She said that her 11-year-old and DH are quite tall and there wasn't enough legroom for them. She thought that the Rondo had much more room, but only wished it had different seating.
I don't know what she eventually bought, but that's besides the point (yeah, there's actually a point).
If the Mazda5 is clearly the "better car," then why are some people deliberately choosing an inferior product? It can't be the price since they are both priced similarly. Are the cross-shoppers who chose the Rondo over the 5 under some sort of delusion? Is that mom delusional for thinking the 5 is too small for her needs? Is she just plain nuts for not liking the way it drives? Should she be committed for failing to see that the 5 is actually a "better car"?
The truth is, when you say that the Mazda5 is a "better car," you're really only saying that it's better for yourself. "But look," you might say, "the 5 is better looking, handles better, better on gas, better for kids" and so on. Yeah, better for you. Get it?
From most reviews that I've read that mentions both vehicles, they usually state that the 5 looks better and handles better. You can also bolster that with some hard statistics, such as perhaps the turning radius, mileage, etc. So yeah, I guess you can use all of that to proclaim that the 5 is, in fact, "better." But better for whom? For you? For me? For that mom? You think she is having second thoughts now that you've figured out for all of us that the 5 is "better"?
Some point of fact that you consider as "better" might not be "better" for someone else. In fact, it might be totally irrelevant.
The Mazda5 might look "better" because the Rondo has features such as a bulbous minivan-like exterior, unfashionably low beltline, tall roof and huge windows--but I'm not willing to sacrifice the Rondo's great visibility and roominess (perceived and real) just to be part of the "in" crowd. So in what way would the Mazda5's "betterness" in the looks department be actually "better" for me? It's not like I'm cruising for dates (my wife would object). In reality and in practice, the Rondo's looks is better for me because I prefer what those "dorky" features give me--a very open and spacious cabin with mostly excellent sightlines all around. If one ain't confident enough to be seen in a Rondo, get a Mazda5.
As I've stated before, perhaps some think that a "real man" wouldn't drive a vehicle that looks like this, but I beg to differ. Only a real man can drive a vehicle as "ugly" as this. As The Family Guy's Peter Griffin once said, "Every guy you see with a big house or a fancy car or a shiny gold tooth is really just saying, 'Don't look at my penis.'" Laugh at me in my doofus-mobile if you really want to, but I get the last laugh where it really counts.
Yeah, the Mazda5 might be a better handling vehicle than the Rondo with unexpected "zoom zoom" (that inane advertising slogan) for a utility vehicle--but again, better for whom? I didn't buy a people hauler to marvel at how well it handles--this is a practical vehicle, first and foremost. Am I going to be pushing it like a sports car and admiring how well it corners while I'm in stop-and-go traffic with wife and kid in tow?
Personally, I prefer a softer suspension and not overly sensitive steering in a utility vehicle (maybe that's what that mom prefers, too). These are not very sporty preferences, but it's better for me. Yes, I have driven a 5 and I admired the way it handled. The Rondo, however, handles and steers quite well for a utility vehicle (just my experience and obviously not yours)--but it's nevertheless a secondary consideration when it comes to what I look for in vehicles like this.
Strange how a "not better" vehicle can somehow be better for me and some other folks. Funny that.
BTW, the majority of reviews that I've read (and I've read a lot of them, just ask my fellow Rondo owners) mention that one of the Rondo's pluses is its smooth ride--unlike your experience and just like my experience.
Anyway, enjoy your clearly "better car." I'll do the same with mine.
(I get déjà vu whenever I read this thread. Everyone--especially me--keeps repeating the same things over and over again. What's old is new again. Which is, among other reasons, why I rarely read this thread anymore.)
#475 of 859 Re: I'm sorry, but... [nissmazlover]
Jun 18, 2008 (4:55 am)
no I have not driven a Mazda 5, it did not meet our requirements as I stated, so I wasn't going to waste my valuable time driving it. However, if the Rondo had not impressed me I would perhaps have done that.
When I took the 2.4L Rondo out for a test drive (and it was not a quick run around the block, we drove it for 50km) on various roads including the 401 (our freeway) to check out on ramp acceleration and passing at high speed and was absolutely blown away by its power, performance and handling and fast response - there was no need to look further or even to try out their V6 model. That clinched the deal!
The Rondo is the better car for our criteria.
#476 of 859 Re: So anything exciting happened here lately? [medicineman]
Jun 18, 2008 (12:15 pm)
Personal jab not intended here at all, so please don't take it as such. Nevertheless, to me, from what you have written, it seems as though you are not a car enthusiast whatsoever. You prefer comfort and space at the expense of better driving dynamics and attractive styling. That's fine, it's your preference, but you just don't "get" it, and that's fine. I'm sure there are a lot of other things you do "get".
Now, just because someone prefers better looking cars, it doesn't mean they suffer from having short "members" (no need to go into measurements here (lol), but I've always been happy and proud of myself, and so has my wife . Also, how do you explain the 5 women I was with, 3 of whom know nothing about cars, who also very much disliked the Rondo and its styling and preferred the 5? Do they have short members, too? LOL) . It simply means they like good looking cars and appreciate good design. Nothing more.
All this "pc-ness" is really tiring. Preferences and opinions can, in deed, be wrong. Someone out there just might prefer a White Castle hamburger over a real Angus hamburger. Does this, then, mean that the Angus burger stops being a better burger? Obviously not. Filet Mignon is still a better quality meat than chuck steak, even if I love chuck steak. Aretha Franklin is a better singer than Britney Spears. No matter how many crazy fans love Britney's voice, Franklin has a higher quality voice. This is what I mean by "better is better regardless of preference", and, now, regardless of criteria. A family may need an under $30K 7-passenger minivan. Does that mean that a Mercedes GL series stops being a better car than their Chevy Uplander simply because it doesn't meet their criteria? Come on. It might not fit their needs, but it's still a better car.
I still stick by my original posting. Objectively, The Mazda 5 is a better car than the Kia Rondo, even if the Rondo is slightly larger inside and, technically, fits 7 people, and the M5 only 6. It simply feels as its built to a higher standard of overall quality, refinement, design and styling, thereby making it a better car regardless of the fact that someone may need a rear bench seat as opposed to the inherently more comfortable captain chairs.
And, again, I never said that someone choosing a Rondo over a 5 makes them delusional. I said claiming that it is a better car than the 5 makes them delusional, as would an owner claiming their Uplander is better than a GL series. And I'm not claiming they need to be committed, either. There is more than one meaning to the word delusion. (Link - www.dictionary.com: Delusion #3 - A false belief or opinion (ex: delusions of grandeur). Nothing more.)
Mind you all, I really WANTED to like the Rondo. I did. Honestly! But, it sorely disappointed me, and it made me appreciate my 5 even more. I don't like to be an "armchair philosopher" which is why I wanted to actually experience a Rondo before I wrote about it and compared it to the 5. And that's what I wanted to do: share that experience in a Mazda 5 vs Kia Rondo forum, and have a little harmless fun in the process. But, it seems as though Kia owners really don't like to have fun, which is why they didn't buy a Mazda in the first place . (That was a harmless joke, now, people. Don't be getting all offended)
Side note: Edmunds listed MSRP for M5 = $18,945
Edmunds listed MSRP for Rondo = $16,395. Difference = $2,550.
A big enough reason for many to choose the Rondo.