- #434 of 464
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Re: Project plan [iuliuscaesar]
by gagrice
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Jul 27, 2009 (6:05 am)
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Replying to: iuliuscaesar (Jul 27, 2009 1:36 am)
If they only offer the cheapo gas versions of the Fiat & Alfa, they are doomed to failure. Only the diesel models that get great mileage will be winners for Chrysler. They need some winners to stay in business.
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- #435 of 464
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Re: Project plan [gagrice]
by wtd44
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Jul 27, 2009 (6:23 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 27, 2009 6:05 am)
How do you figure? Diesel is what it is, but in America it has yet to really catch on as a desired alternative. I am not against diesel, but the populace of American vehicle operators seems to be little interested in it. Alfa and Fiat gasoline models selling at popular prices at least have a shot at success. Perhaps some "brand engineering" with name plates would boost sales.
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- #436 of 464
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Re: Project plan [wtd44]
by gagrice
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Jul 27, 2009 (7:46 am)
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Replying to: wtd44 (Jul 27, 2009 6:23 am)
That is the problem. The rebadged Fiats will be competing against a plethora of gas options. Who in their right mind would buy a Chrysler gas econobox over a Korean or Japanese? VW is gaining market share in the USA with the new diesel Jetta. A 70 MPG diesel Fiat 500 would tempt me for a runabout car. Remember about the time Fiat gets up to speed the Indians will be flooding the market with super cheap cars. I don't think the new Chrysler has a chance at surviving with UAW built econoboxes. UNLESS they offer a big mileage advantage. That is only possible with hybrid or diesel.
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- #437 of 464
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Re: Project plan [gagrice]
by gagrice
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Jul 27, 2009 (7:54 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 27, 2009 7:46 am)
Update. The Fiat 500 with a 100 HP gas engine with 0-62 MPH at 10.5 seconds only gets a combined 37 MPG. The same 500 with a diesel engine is 56 MPG combined. And the diesel version is only $330 more than the gasser.
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- #438 of 464
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Re: Project plan [gagrice]
by mickeyrom
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Jul 27, 2009 (8:21 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 27, 2009 7:54 am)
Excuse me,but 37 MPG combined is excellent.
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- #439 of 464
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Re: Project plan [mickeyrom]
by kernick
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Jul 27, 2009 (8:36 am)
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Replying to: mickeyrom (Jul 27, 2009 8:21 am)
but 37 MPG combined is excellent.
About whatI would get from 3 vehicles that I owned in the 80's - an Escort, a Sentra, and a CRX. It's not that great when you realize that that sort of mileage was possible was from engine and transmission technology of 30 years ago.
I agree with gagrice - if Chrysler/Fiat comes here with small relatively expensive cars, that get 37mpg or so, they won't be a big hit. In order to really succeed they are going to need to offer something exceptional. If I wanted to buy a premium small car, I'd get a Mini; if I wanted low price and high mpg I'd get a Ford Fiesta, Hyundai, Nissan Versa or Honda Fit.
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- #440 of 464
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Re: Project plan [kernick]
by mickeyrom
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Jul 27, 2009 (9:45 am)
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Replying to: kernick (Jul 27, 2009 8:36 am)
With the possible exception of the Fiesta which I know nothing about,none of the cars mentioned will get combined 37MPG.Check it out anywhere you like.Actually none are even rated at 37 highway.I'll that 37 any time I can.
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- #441 of 464
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Re: Project plan [mickeyrom]
by gagrice
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Jul 27, 2009 (10:23 am)
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Replying to: mickeyrom (Jul 27, 2009 9:45 am)
Comparing the Fiat 500 to the smallest 3dr Yaris, both with 100 HP gas engines, the Yaris gets a combined mileage 46 US MPG. It is bigger and a direct competitor in the UK. My son in law has the US model Yaris and gets 40 MPG on a regular basis. If Toyota were to offer the same gas engine here as in the EU it would compete with the Prius for mileage. It looks to me like Fiat has some catching up to do on gas engine design. If Chrysler is banking on Fiat I believe it is shaky ground.
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- #442 of 464
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Re: Project plan [mickeyrom]
by kernick
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Jul 27, 2009 (10:55 am)
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Replying to: mickeyrom (Jul 27, 2009 9:45 am)
I never said those cars got 37mpg combined. But they are close enough in actual real-life driving for me that I do not consider the Fiat to be any significant advantage.
If I have a choice between a $10K Versa getting 32mpg combined (or whatever) against an unknown Fiat at 37mpg and what price, I'd choose the Versa.
If Fiat/Chrysler wants to make a hit and differentiate itself, it better bring something to market that's very inexpensive and gets 25+% better mpg than anything in it's non-hybrid class. I'd say it needs to sell its ultra-high mpg diesel, or stay home with this model. Otherwise this small car is just another "me-too", and maybe with a higher price tag because of the high union labor.
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- #443 of 464
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Re: Project plan [mickeyrom]
by nortsr1
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Jul 27, 2009 (11:36 am)
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Replying to: mickeyrom (Jul 27, 2009 8:21 am)
But 56 mpg with a diesel is a hell of a lot better for only $330.00 more for the diesel!
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