Honda Civic Brake Questions

I never go to the dealer except for warranty work. Most have a bunch of dum-dums working there with one or two who actually know something to keep an eye on the rest. However, anyone who's remotely any good can usually move on to open their own shop or get a better deal at the next dealer down the street, so there may not even be one or two good ones. I try to get recommendations of a good Honda-oriented independent mechanic and haven't been disappointed very often.

#18 of 65 Civic brakes overheating and warping by msmith8

Nov 03, 2008 (6:33 pm)

I have a 1994 Civic with disc brakes on all four wheels. All calipers work. When I replace the front rotors and pads, they overheat and warp the rotors and wear the pads out quickly. It seems that much of the braking is being done by the fronts with little help from the rears. Is there a way to adjust this? Or is there another problem I'm not aware of? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

Replies to this message:

MrShift@Edmunds (Nov 03, 2008 6:55 pm)
- msmith8 (Nov 03, 2008 7:59 pm)
  - mark19 (Nov 03, 2008 10:36 pm)
jonesbb630 (Nov 03, 2008 7:49 pm)
cz75 (Nov 06, 2008 7:37 am)

#19 of 65 Re: Civic brakes overheating and warping [msmith8] by MrShift@Edmunds HOST

Nov 03, 2008 (6:55 pm)

Replying to: msmith8 (Nov 03, 2008 6:33 pm)

do you recall the brand name of the parts you used and what you paid for them?

Replies to this message:

msmith8 (Nov 03, 2008 7:59 pm)
- mark19 (Nov 03, 2008 10:36 pm)

#20 of 65 Re: Civic brakes overheating and warping [msmith8] by jonesbb630

Nov 03, 2008 (7:49 pm)

Replying to: msmith8 (Nov 03, 2008 6:33 pm)

If you buy Honda rotors, this does not surprise me at all. Get a cheap set of aftermarket performance rotors. These would be twice the quality Honda makes. They will resist overheating in return extending the life of your pads. Speaking from experience. Good luck...

#21 of 65 Re: Civic brakes overheating and warping [Mr_Shiftright] by msmith8

Nov 03, 2008 (7:59 pm)

Replying to: MrShift@Edmunds (Nov 03, 2008 6:55 pm)

I bought the high end Napa rotors, $52.00 a piece, and middle quality Napa pads,
$41.00 a set.

Replies to this message:

mark19 (Nov 03, 2008 10:36 pm)

#22 of 65 Re: Civic brakes overheating and warping [msmith8] by mark19

Nov 03, 2008 (10:36 pm)

Replying to: msmith8 (Nov 03, 2008 7:59 pm)

you should check your caliper's sliding pins to make sure they're lubed and not sticking. The caliper sounds like it might be sticking, so start with the sliding pins.

also definitely bleed the entire brake system, get that old fluid out of there if it hasn't been changing in awhile.

#23 of 65 by kenlw

Nov 04, 2008 (8:39 am)

It isn't uncommon to replace the front pads 2-3x the rate of the rears, this is considered normal, 100k on rear disk pads is not uncommon. If you replace the rears much less or much more often than that, the proportioning valve that determines how much braking force goes to front -vs- rear may be off. It can be adjusted, but it is best left to a qualified mechanic to do so.

Most rotors can be turned to remove the warp. Some newer ones are made too thin to be turned and must be replaced, but that is more common for rears which wear slower. Even if you don't need to have it turned, when you replace the pads you should at least remove the glazing that forms on the surface. Just the glazing can cause noise, sticking and squealing. I remove it with a fine sandpaper.

Make sure the pads and rotors are compatible, some rotors (solid in particular) just don't like metallic or semi-metallic pads.

You just may need to get some better rotors, solid rotors are the cheapest available, weight less (=higher mileage) but are more prone to warp; ventilated rotors are a major step up. They will cost more but should last longer. Avoid slotted or drilled, they're mostly for show on a Civic and just cost more.

Replies to this message:

cz75 (Nov 06, 2008 8:11 am)

#24 of 65 Re: Civic brakes overheating and warping [msmith8] by cz75

Nov 06, 2008 (7:37 am)

Replying to: msmith8 (Nov 03, 2008 6:33 pm)

It is the pads themselves and the small rotors. I assume they are the standard Civic/Integra 10.3" fronts that are dirt cheap just about everywhere - AutoZone Duralast are a good value if you don't want to get a set of Brembo rotors shipped to you.

Replace the rotors and upgrade to a high quality pad. I like Axxis/PBR Ultimates, but the XBG are probably a little more street-friendly. They can take the heat generated by having too much front weight bias and too little front brake for the vehicle weight. I dislike Hawk HPS intensely because they a not much better than stock and they never seem to fit right (i.e., you have a hard time using the OEM brake shims with them).

Replace your brake fluid too. Valvoline Synthetic DOT3/DOT4 is very good for the money and c an take the heat generated by the brake system so long as you change it the recommended two-year interval. Lubricate the slider pins on the calipers, as sometimes these get stuck and make the brakes hotter than normal, warping them.

I just re-read your post and I would note that the rear ratcheting calipers that act as parking brakes sometimes act up and stick, reducing their effectiveness. You may need to replace them and you can buy remanufactured calipers just about anywhere and these, IME, are the same as what the Honda Part Dept. will sell you, but for more money.

Another suggestion is that you replace all four sets of pads with same compound as this will increase rear brake bias, since Honda uses a less aggressive pad in the rear. Why? Because front biased brakes are generally safer than those that are more balanced, but Honda leaves too much on the table and you can pick up a little better braking with no loss of safety by using the same compound on all four corners.

#25 of 65 Re: [kenlw] by cz75

Nov 06, 2008 (8:11 am)

Replying to: kenlw (Nov 04, 2008 8:39 am)

Warpage is often just melted pad material that gets deposited unevenly on the face of the rotor, which emphasizes the need for a high quality compound with a high operating temperature, at least 850F on FWD cars with their high front weight bias. These deposits can eventually harden the metal underneath them and form a high spot in the metal as the rotor wears down, which then must be turned. Civic rotors are so cheap that it is easier to throw them away. The sandpaper idea is good, but use garnet paper so you don't get aluminum oxide inclusions on the rotor face.

Solid rotors and pad material compatibility is a new one for me. Never had a problem. Where I have had an issue is using two different brake compounds on the same rotor. Brakes work mostly by adherent friction rather than abrasive friction and this requires a layer of pad material to be deposited on the rotor face, which is where the conflict in compounds comes in.

I wouldn't even think it would be possible to get solid front rotors for this car, just ventilated. The rear rotors are only going to be solid.

I would advise the poster with the '94 Civic to also be careful about breaking in his rotors and pads carefully and according to manufacturer directions to get best life and performance from them. The rotors perform best with gentle stops for the first 100-200 miles, then the pads need to be bedded-in with a number (5-10) of medium effort stops from around 45-50mph, with about a minute in between, followed by 5 minutes of driving, then 5 hard stops with about a minute in between, during which time the brakes will start to get hot and smell bad. Not to worry, as this is cooking out the chemicals that may outgas under a hard stop otherwise and reduce brake effectiveness. Keep driving and try not to make any complete stops (do this in a rural area) for 20 minutes. Park the car (at home is fine, you don't have to just stop somewhere) for at least 3-4 hours to let the brakes cool and you're good to go.

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