- #132 of 160
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Re: Firestone verse Mastercraft by Cooper tires are great! [bruneau1]
by coldcranker
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Jan 24, 2009 (1:27 pm)
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Replying to: bruneau1 (Jan 24, 2009 1:02 pm)
bruneau1 said "I just had Michelin LX4 225/65/17 put on my Freestyle. Very pleased. Smooth, much quieter and more poised."
Not a good choice.
First of all, the max PSI on that tire is 35 PSI, way too close to the Freestyle's placard 34 PSI. That should be 41 or 44 PSI like the Ford engineers specified.
Secondly, the LX4 has a lower speed rating, which means sidewall stiffness and heat resistance strength is below Ford engineer's specs as well. Its an SR tire, and a TR or HR is the recommended.
Many installers will catch those mistakes, although I guess not all are paying attention.
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- #133 of 160
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Re: Firestone verse Mastercraft by Cooper tires are great! [coldcranker]
by bruneau1
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Jan 25, 2009 (9:07 am)
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Replying to: coldcranker (Jan 24, 2009 1:27 pm)
What nonsense about speed ratings. I really doubt that anyone driving a Freestyle will try to exceed the speed rating of an S tire. Secondly, tires with H ratings have stiffer sidewells and generally stiffer rides which I wanted to avoid. What is the speed rating of the Conti 215/65/17 on the majority of Freestyles and Taurus X? Do you really think that tire is superior to the LX4???? And your comments about air pressure make no sense. Where do Ford engineers specify 41 or 44??? At that pressure, the vehicle would have a horrible and noisy ride, erratic handling, and would be dangerously subject to impact damage. I even find the 34 suggested for the rear tires too stiff and thumpy. we rarely carry much weight in the back, so 32-32 produces a more civilized ride and a little less noise from the rear. By the way, S tires have a speed rating of 112 and T 118. Can a a Freestyle even go that fast?
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- #134 of 160
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Re: Firestone verse Mastercraft by Cooper tires are great! [bruneau1]
by tidester HOST
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Jan 25, 2009 (11:52 am)
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Replying to: bruneau1 (Jan 25, 2009 9:07 am)
I really doubt that anyone driving a Freestyle will try to exceed the speed rating of an S tire.
Never underestimate the willingness of people to test safety margins. 
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
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- #135 of 160
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Re: Firestone verse Mastercraft by Cooper tires are great! [bruneau1]
by coldcranker
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Jan 25, 2009 (4:08 pm)
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Replying to: bruneau1 (Jan 25, 2009 9:07 am)
brueneau1, Speed ratings on tires reveal a certain sidewall stiffness and belt strength, so they are important for those parameters. How fast you go is not that relevant. Note the stock OEM Conti tires which Ford engineers chose as the baseline, are TR speed rated and have 44 psi max pressures. The Michelin LX4s you mentioned do not share comparable specs, as the speed rating is too weak, and the 35 psi max pressure is far too close to the Ford engineers pressure recommendations. The safety margin between the placard 34 psi and the max psi rating is the salient spec here, and is strongly suggested to be higher.
Rule Number 1: Never put weaker speed rating tires than OEM on your vehicle.
Rule Number 2: Never put a lower max pressure tire on your vehicle than OEM.
Since some people will put that LX4 on the vehicle, you should be fine as long as you keep no more than 35 psi (and don't go below 32 psi all around, narrow range), don't load the vehicle up with people and/or cargo past around 75% of max payload weight capacity, and when carrying more than just a driver and one passenger, keep your speed below about 70 on a hot day, and 80 on a cold day. Following those guidelines should provide the approximate original amount of safety margin. To me, it would simply be easier to put correct tires on and go right to the limits of the machine as tested and designed for by Ford engineers. Recommended.
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- #136 of 160
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Re: Firestone verse Mastercraft by Cooper tires are great! [coldcranker]
by bruneau1
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Jan 26, 2009 (9:42 am)
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Replying to: coldcranker (Jan 25, 2009 4:08 pm)
the only reason Ford put the T rated Conti on the Freestyle is that it was the cheapest they could find. the s rated LX4 has been around for some time and has been used on heavy vehicles like Marquis and Town Cars. I believe it is still standard equipment on a Lexus SUV. And no, there haven't been any reports of unusual failure or blowups, etc. I find your implication that putting this tire on a Freestyle might be dangerous to be ridiculous. A Freestyle can't even go 112 miles per hour and any idiot who would try deserves what he gets. Michelin people say the maximum pressure figures on lots of tires encourages some people to go there with bad results. The LX4 is a much better tire than the original cheap, noisy, low mileage Conti. So many new cars are coming out with low profile tires with high speed ratings and the result is nothing more than inferior ride and more noise.
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- #137 of 160
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Re: Firestone verse Mastercraft by Cooper tires are great! [bruneau1]
by coldcranker
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Jan 26, 2009 (10:43 am)
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Replying to: bruneau1 (Jan 26, 2009 9:42 am)
brueneau1, Maybe I wasn't clear. My bad. Please read my previous post again. Here is a list of points:
1. Ultimate speed is not really the issue here. Ford specified a TR tire because of sidewall stiffness and stress/durability issues. It ties into the handling. When we deviate from Ford engineer's specs, then handling degrades.
2. The fact that Ford recommends 34 psi, and your LX4 has a max pressure rating of 35 psi is just way too close. Many gauges aren't even that accurate, so you might think you're putting in 34 psi one day and you're actually at or above the max psi pressure rating on the tire sidewall. Not wise. Ford OEM tires have a max psi rating of 44 psi, the normal safety margin.
And one more point: The OEM Conti tires are very strong, stiff, and get good traction. The only problem they have is Conti didn't put enough rubber on the tread, making them wear out very fast. And I think the tread compound they used also causes fast wear.
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- #138 of 160
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Re: Firestone verse Mastercraft by Cooper tires are great! [coldcranker]
by volfangary
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Jan 26, 2009 (1:26 pm)
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Replying to: coldcranker (Jan 26, 2009 10:43 am)
What I find amazing is that I have almost 51,000 miles on my Conti's and still can most likely go another 5,000 miles and still be safe. Wonder why Conti's on other Freestyles wear out faster? I've been pleased with my four Conti's. Not the smoothest ride I have ever had but they have worn well.
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- #139 of 160
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Re: Firestone verse Mastercraft by Cooper tires are great! [volfangary]
by coldcranker
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Jan 26, 2009 (4:55 pm)
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Replying to: volfangary (Jan 26, 2009 1:26 pm)
volfangary, Some folks get good wear results with the OEM Conti's. There was a class action lawsuit on that same tire with the ContiSeal "goo" inside the tire to prevent flats, and there should have been a recall on the non-ContiSeal versions of that same tire (ContiTouringContact CT95). There was evidence presented that the factory inconsistently formulated the rubber compounds in the CT95, in both the ContiSeal versions and the regular non-ContiSeal ones on Freestyles. You, apparently, got a set made on a good day. I and many other people were not as lucky as you. (Only the ContiSeal version of the CT95 made the class action lawsuit as a stupid lawyer compromise in deal-making suit negotiations.) The lawsuit contended that the CT95 didn't last very long at all. That said, the rest of CT95 construction is very good. Good traction, strong tire overall.
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- #140 of 160
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Re: Firestone verse Mastercraft by Cooper tires are great! [coldcranker]
by volfangary
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Jan 26, 2009 (6:31 pm)
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Replying to: coldcranker (Jan 26, 2009 4:55 pm)
coldcranker, Thanks for the good information. When I go to look for new tires, what tire would you recommend for someone who lives in Tennessee and rarely goes anywhere it snows.
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- #141 of 160
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Re: Firestone verse Mastercraft by Cooper tires are great! [volfangary]
by barnstormer64
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Jan 26, 2009 (7:48 pm)
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Replying to: volfangary (Jan 26, 2009 6:31 pm)
Based on the recommendations/reviews at Tiremax, I'm considernig the Michel Primacy MXV4 tires for both my Freestyle LTD and Five Hundred AWD LTD.
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