Last post on Nov 02, 2012 at 9:59 AM
You are in the Lexus LS 460/460L
What is this discussion about?
Lexus LS 460, Sedan
#202 of 877 Re: The Economics of the LS 460 [houdini1]
Dec 24, 2006 (1:16 pm)
The 'deal' was for a LWB w/touring package, MSRP $82,407. By the time they showed the car the price had increased to $92K and change w/o tax, having added chromed wheels and LoJack. I can't imagine anybody trying to peddle LoJack if the car has Lexus Link, which this one had. I asked our police chief one time whether they could really track a stolen vehicle equipped w/LoJack, and his advice was "if your car is ever stolen, you really don't want it back"!
I was so annoyed after the bait-and-switch I did not bother driving the car. It did not have the upgrade (analine?) leather, and the interior appearance was no better than my '06. A personal choice, but I prefer the maple wood from '06 to the walnut being offered in 2007. My 430 has less than 2.8K miles with sport suspension, satellite radio, NAV, Levinson, and chromed wheels. There is not a blemish anyplace on the automobile. They generously offered $39K as a trade-in.
Had they said upfront they are putting a $10K premium on the MSRP because is is a scarce vehicle I could respect that explanation rather than the BS about chromed wheels costing $4k. I know this sounds nit-picky for a car in this price range but I do not like being played for a fool, which is the wrong strategy for Lexus dealers when trying to convince buyers interested in new 460 series.
#203 of 877 Re: The Economics of the LS 460 [tricky73]
Dec 24, 2006 (2:41 pm)
OK, now I understand. Certainly you should have walked away from that deal. Not only that but I would find a new dealer if possible. Those guys need to be selling to someone not as savvy as Lexus buyers. Maybe they should open a Mercedes dealership!
#204 of 877 Re: The Economics of the LS 460 [tricky73]
Dec 24, 2006 (4:00 pm)
Tricky73, could you name the dealer that you mentioned? They (Edmunds) let you name dealers, just not salesmen.
#205 of 877 My problem
Dec 24, 2006 (5:53 pm)
I've drive the 2001 LS 430 which I bought new. Always thought I'd trade it in for this new model. But I have several problems:
1. Dealers in SoCal have NO cars to test drive - the few they get are pre sold. I won't buy any car without a decent test drive. Big demand for these cars or intentional effort by Lexus keep prices up or both?
2. My 2001 has 65K miles and I'll be darned but it drives and looks like a new car and never has had a problem. I love driving it. No one has ever complained about it's comfort or leg room.
3. The new LS 460 size has grown in width, lower in height, much heavier, and it's tad longer in length. All in small increments but still negatives to me. I can't ever remember ever needing more speed than my 430 has.
4. All the extra electronics really won't make driving more comfortable to me. Example: I need a self parking option like a hole in my head.
Yet, price isn't an issue for me and I like new pretty fancy things ... but does it make any sense to jump to a 460 when I'm very happy with my "old" 430? My friends think I will jump but only based on satisfying my ego. Oh gee, life is full of these type issues and I wish I knew the right decision. HELP!! (BTW happy Xmas and New Year to all)
#206 of 877 My friend went to the "dark side" (help ljflx)
Dec 24, 2006 (8:18 pm)
One of the guys I play tennis with changed his mind and decided to go with the S550. He was going to go with the LS460L. He previously owned an S500. BTW, he had this vehicle in the shop rather frequently. Of course he brought up the recent C & D comparison where the LS460L came in last place among the 5 luxury cars tested. In particular, he mentioned the breaking distance from 70 to 0 as pretty awful. I tried to tell him that this was a pre-production model but he does not believe me. He picked up the C & D magazine and read the review and he claims that it does not say it is a pre-production model.
Here is where ljflx can be of help. lj, about 10 days ago you stated that this C & D comparison is a joke and I agree with you. You also said that you really had to look hard but in a subtle message the C & D revealed that the LS460L was indeed a pre-production model. I read the article through a link this past hour, but I cannot find this subtle statement. Where exactly is it located? I did see that the test was done on August 29 with a stated curb weight of 4700 pounds. How can this not be a pre-production model?
After some thought, I have come to the conclusion that the real reason my tennis buddy decided to go with the S550 was for prestige. In his mind, he will look like more of a "big shot" with the S550. After all the trouble he had with his S500, I am very surprised he went to the "dark side" .
Merry Christmas and a Happy, healthy New Year everyone!
#207 of 877 Re: My friend went to the "dark side" (help ljflx) [cyclone4]
Dec 24, 2006 (9:21 pm)
Merry Christmas Cyclone and everyone else. Been real busy so I have'nt been reading up much the past week.
In the exerp below (which comes in the LS review part of the story) here's the only time in that review that you see mention of the car as a pre-production car. If you're not paying close attention you read right past it.
"The steering mechanism rotates as if on roller bearings (it might well be), and the sound levels are low enough inside that imperfect door seals on our preproduction vehicle produced wind noise that seemed hurricane-like in comparison"
Now compare that to how they went out of their way to let you know the A8 was a 2006 model right out of the gate before you even get into the A8 part of the review:
For 2007, the A8 has a new direct-injection 4.2-liter V-8 with 350 horsepower; unfortunately, only a 2006 with the 40-valve, 335-hp V-8 was available for this test. So keep in mind that the specification, performance, and pricing information are for the 2006 A8L. Expect the ’07 car to be a smidge quicker and cost about $1000 more.
Now shouldn't the quid pro quo (if you are reporting objectively) have been to state that "unfortunately, the LS 460L we tested was a preproduction model etc" and for that to have been made crystal clear in the article upfront. When I see bias like that I dismiss the whole report on the LS immediately whether it's pro or con. Of course it had no chance to be pro and that's why they made the notation of preproduction as hidden as they could.
Here's the whole story:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/12081/2006-jaguar-super-v-8-vs-2007-merc- - - edes-benz-s550-vs-2006-audi-a8l-quattro-vs-2007-lexus-ls460l-vs-2006-bmw-750li.h- - - tml
BTW - I mentioned this review to a high source at my dealership. His response - which may be predjudiced or may be accurate - is that many auto reviewers are not happy that Lexus is selling $80-100K cars. As well the expected rollout of the L650 and the sportscar - which will be priced at $150K and the pre-orders of the LS600HL at over $100K are making it even worse. Most thought that when LS prices bumped against S550 prices and leapfrogged 7-series prices LS sales would falter. Instead people are bypassing the reviews and lining uo for the cars. As a poster pointed out earlier the car is difficult to even test drive because it is snapped up so quickly. I've heard a few reports about the LS460L going $5K or more over list now.
#208 of 877 Re: My problem [dan67]
Dec 24, 2006 (10:24 pm)
I've driven the 460, and it won't feel that much different to you, and unless you get the L, it won't park itself either. The seating feels the same. It drives smoother, quieter, and easier than the 430. I'm with you, power isn't an issue, my 430 has plenty, but once you get inside, you'll be greeted with a nicer array of instrumentation. Similar to what you have, but better and more attractive.
I say, you can afford it, get one and boost the economy a bit. You won't be sorry, and you'll enjoy the car tremendously. I'm going to, but my current model is an 05, and I'm waiting probably another year or so.
#209 of 877 Re: My friend went to the "dark side" (help ljflx) [ljflx]
Dec 25, 2006 (10:21 am)
Thanks again lj! I wonder how many others actually saw this word (preproduction) as they read the article. I certainly missed it. I am not even sure that people on the HELC board saw this with their own eyes. This is so incredibly sneaky on the part of C & D. It will be a real pleasure to point this out to my tennis buddy. I can't wait to see his explanation now.
#210 of 877 Re: My friend went to the "dark side" (help ljflx) [cyclone4]
Dec 25, 2006 (11:04 am)
It's why the C&D report on the LS is a joke. I've been in the publishing industry and know many editors. You only write like that if your intentions are NOT to be objective. I've driven the S550 and the LS460L several times. They are very much alike.
OK - I've got to get back to Christmas before my wife and kids kill me.
#211 of 877 My Final Post on 460 vs 430
Dec 25, 2006 (3:04 pm)
OK, there have been a few comments posted that have helped crystallize my thinking. A casual read of reviews and comments would have one believe the 460 is a revolutionary design product. I think this is what has bothered me all along.
The 460 is not revolutionary at all; rather it should be viewed as a refined, heavier, smaller inside (SWB), and restyled version of the 4XX product line. For those of us who own/drive an earlier version of this series have long learned to appreciate the many wonderful attributes of the vehicle, and coupled with an examplary reliability history there is little reason to change except for emotional considerations. The changes being hyped probably are not cost effective if one is currently driving a late model 4XX. Thanks guys.
BTW, I think the 9-spoke wheels of the 460 are dopey...anybody else bothered by this detail?
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!