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SUVs Jeep Liberty and Jeep Liberty Diesel Jeep Liberty Diesel EGR Problems
108 messages, Last post on Mar 28, 2009 at 5:29 PM
You are in the Jeep Liberty and Jeep Liberty Diesel Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & tidester
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Replying to: winter2 (Jan 12, 2007 6:04 am) Thanks for the input on the brake spring and etc. To answer your question about would we have bought it if we had known about the very limited production and or experiment with the CED, NO WAY! I am not a risk taker with twenty eight thousand plus dollars. In fact I do not buy a vehicle without the extended warranty. The CRd has a zero deductable 100,000 mile 5 year max care DCX plan. I have such luck that if there a a bad vehicle in 1,000 new vehicles I would pick it, even though it was brand new. We bought a 1987 Mercury Topaz. This was a car made in Fords end of the model year left over parts. It was supposed to have a 12 gallon gas tank, it came out with a 19 gallon that hung so low there was just a very sort distance between the bottom of the tank and the rear suspension. The Ford Airostar we bought new and in 65,000 miles it needed a needed rings and valves. I maintain all my vehicles even beyond what the owners manual said. So I tend to be on the safe side as much as possible. Farout
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Replying to: farout (Jan 12, 2007 4:48 pm) |
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Replying to: winter2 (Jan 11, 2007 10:45 am) It's a bit difficult to 'filter out' possible issues being an 'insider' of the EU market. Beyond the simple reputation of robustness and reliability between auto makers, I found a french thesis on the web describing the common rail technology in terms of 'what does this bring' to the customer. Here are a few guidelines I extracted: - Reliability of a standard PCM technology. It's true, we never read about people having to change their controller. They have it re flashed, but seldom replaced. - High solicitation of the injectors. They have been used for many years on trucks and seem to survive well. - High pressure and variation of pressure in the common rail. We use a range of pressures between 200 and 1600 Bars (idling to full load). Here, the sealing and regulation of fuel pressure are difficult to maintain over time. This is a possible source of mechanical issues. - Tight machining tolerances. They are needed for injecting precise quantities of fuel to meet emission standards. Precision has a cost, so spare parts will cost more. Here we have a completely different approach: we don't want to throw away our old parts, perhaps they can be repaired for less money. This is the most discriminating issue. - Diesel fuel quality is the only criteria we can rely on for lubrification. We use the 'most expensive' types of injectors, seals and regulators of the diesel market. We should not forget the need for special qualification of our diesel technicians. This affects the cost of service and fuel. I can personnaly add the need to have reliable sensors, connectors, wiring harnesses that are constantly observed by the different controllers that don't accept any fugitive malfunction and display the famous OBD "error codes". Our recent discussions also highlighted the need for components to be chemically inert, I'm referring to the 'PROVENT' protecting the EGR Air Flow Controller position sender (this flap living in exhaust and oily intake atmosphere). Many moons ago I compared this technology to a 'Sword of Damoclès'. I understand from reading Farout's posts he is now experiencing the feeling of a possible financial threat. Can you imagine how expensive this technology becomes when you have a star on the hood instead of the 'democratic' JEEP logo? Winter, are you sure this is what you want to buy when you're far from home 
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Replying to: caribou1 (Jan 14, 2007 2:03 am) http://tel.archives-ouvertes.fr/tel-00069271/en/ |
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Replying to: caribou1 (Jan 14, 2007 2:03 am) Thanks for the response. It is helpful. - Reliability of a standard PCM technology. I agree with your analysis here. About the only things that will make a controller fail is a nasty voltage surge, too much heat or immersion in water. - Diesel fuel quality is the only criteria we can rely on for lubrification. Big problem is getting good quality fuel that provides adequate lubrication properties while giving a good clean burn. I would love to use EU spec diesel in my CRD. As it is, finding ULSD in the metro Washington D.C. area has been a problem. Found it easily in southern Florida. Still need to add detergents and cetane improvers to the ULSD. Domestic diesel fuel additive packages are marginal at best. Three days ago I stopped back at the local dealer where I purchased my Liberty. Their head diesel technician was telling me about the large amount of sludge found in the CCV system and EGR valve when he has to change them out. I blame a good part of that on the recommended oil, Mobil 1 0W-40, Daimler-Chrysler requires because it has such a high vaporization rate. Since you switched to the Shell Helix oil, has the amount of goo in the Provent decreased? Since switching to Amsoil 15W-40 and their "CJ" rated 5W-40, the aftercooler hoses are nearly free of any oily goo. Winter, are you sure this is what you want to buy when you're far from home? I have nearly 16K miles on my CRD at this time. Ask me in another 84K miles and I will be able to answer you. If you want an answer based on my own experience with the CRD to this point, I would buy again without hesitation. It has not been perfect, but nothing ever is. I can say with great certainty that I am through with gasoline powered vehicles. They are so totally gutless.
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Replying to: winter2 (Jan 14, 2007 10:38 am) I bought the "PROVENT" CCV filter but I have not installed it because my engine doesn't have all the sensors yours has. I have a basic turbo with a pressure driven wastegate. My four main engine sensors are: - one to measure the timing (start of injection), - one to measure the battery temperature, - one to measure the over pressure on the intake manifold, - one to measure the fuel pressure on the common rail. I use Rotella Helix 5W-40 because it matches our local weather and it's easy to find. I can buy it in department stores 
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Replying to: winter2 (Jan 14, 2007 10:38 am) PBS has a program on "Willy-Bio" As Willy Nelson is involved with others that are producing B-100 from cotton seed oil. From there is goes to a place wich mixes it to sell to stations. Most of the big rigs that used B-20 seemed to be pleased, not by the preformance, but because of the dependance upon foriegn oil is less. I did use B-20 and noticed a loss of fuel mileage and rougher ideling, not a lot but enough to notice. I would use up to B-10 IFthere was a station that carried Bio fuel with in my area. I do agree thatfor a 2.8 L 4 cyclender engine this has the torque to move quick, and the economy that is like that of a compact car. My issues are not with the price to maintain the CRD or even the recalls or re-flashes. I am most upset that that when we have a problem few know how to take care of the problem. The replace and elimanate, trial by error method is sorta ok as long as it does not require so much time and the miles it puts on with me paying for the fuel to go back and forth to get the issue resolved. One problem took 5 trips before the problem was resolved. Right now everything is covered by 1 to 2 inches of solid ice, here. I doubt anyone on our hill can move, unless they have studs in their tires. So our fuel is lasting much longer than normal, it is now 27 F here, we expecting 4 F tommrow. I just might try starting the "green Beast" tommrow to see how it does without the block heater on. farout
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Replying to: farout (Jan 14, 2007 1:00 pm) I have tried to start my CRD at +9 F sans block heater and it started just fine on the first try. Rather noisy though but that is typical for a diesel. I have a better appreciation for your dilemma, namely finding competent service and competent technicians. So far I have been lucky and do have a good service technician who is pretty smart. What I have learned is that when any manufacturer brings a whole new design on line, that there are issues in terms of repairing it right the first time. Even the vaunted Toyota and Honda owners suffer from the same malady with totally new systems. Have tried as high as B20 and have experienced no issues in terms of performance or altered FE. Ran quieter though and had less vibration. There are no local stations that sell biodiesel. Closest on is about 25 miles north of here and they have B5. Have used that a few times and the CRD runs fine on that. As to the USLD issue, EPA does not require all stations to carry ULSD. Up to 20% of diesel fuel can still be S500. I believe that by 2010, all diesel must be S15. Enjoy your ice storm. Hope you do not have a power outage.
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Replying to: winter2 (Jan 14, 2007 1:14 pm) Our Green Beast is sealed in one and a half inch of ice. Now as the snow has started up, with ice and snow it does have a rather airodynamic look. The windshield is sloped from the top of the windshield to the front top of the grill is sloped and looks real cool! We can't even open the doors. We have not lost any power, but close to 100,000 home are with out electric and water, with little hope of reconnections until Wed. or Thurs. However our road up to our home has more than 2" of ice and only a fool would attempt going up or down. Missouri is a neat state because we get a wide varity, and we love green all over the place. We lived Phoenix and we hated the one hundred twenty + degrees, and the humid summers. We love it here. This state is a very good place to retire. farout
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Replying to: farout (Jan 15, 2007 2:09 pm)  When you have to drive downhill on an icy road, remember that the ABS has a strange behavior: when you use the brakes, the wheels block easily and the ABS loosens the brakes to let the tires grip again. During the time given to resume adherence, the transmission pulls the truck again. So you cannot stop the truck going downhill while the transmission is engaged. The ABS will stop you safely when you are in neutral (going down an icy slope of course). Last but not least: forget the 4WD Part-Time on ice. This truck has a short wheelbase and rapidly slides sideways. Once it starts to get out of hand either you stop sliding naturally, either you engage the 4WD Full-Time and take control after a few "irrational trajectories". Try it once and you can repeat the recovery sequence fairly easily. It's quite pleasant to know how to recover a safe drive.
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