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Automotive News & Views Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?
7020 messages, Last post on Dec 09, 2009 at 7:18 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 30, 2008 8:56 am) Yugo? Really? Are they even for sale anymore? If there ANYONE out there saying "drive the smallest car available?" No. Drive the least polluting car that makes sense for your family and fits your budget and needs. "Push all the little people into high rise apartments?" Is anyone anywhere doing that? That was an urban restructuring plan from the 1960s. No one of any consequence is preaching that anymore. "Stinking Bus?" Have you ridden a city bus in a major city LATELY? I have - in San Fran and in Phoenix. And in neither case was the bus "stinky." And the "Grand Canyon" is not nearly as "Grand" as it used to be. Pollution has diminished the views. I was there in March 2008. So let's not get silly. "Control the masses" is ridiculous as a statement and totally misaligned with American public policy. |
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Replying to: larsb (Dec 30, 2008 9:06 am) I want a turbo diesel SUV that gets 30-40 mpg!! THEY STILL do not let them in!!!!! However they allow flex fuel E85 suv's that gets 25% less than the like model gassers 20 mpg or 15 mpg or less !!! The numbers belie the realities !!! ..."No one of any consequence is preaching that anymore. "... Well a lot of it is policy !!! It is literally improbable to build a single family house in this municipality. Do you want to build a 500 unit condo/apt complex, high rise low rise? It is almost no problem !!! What do you think has greater impacts a family of 4 or 500 familes of 4? Indeed it has been the opposing views that has served as the reality tests/counter points for some of these uncorrelated hypothesis', aka dogmas. I just saw a PBS program (Private Foundation sponsored) on "Swimming the Hudson River" . While I am sure it was unintentional, it was not a good graphic or commentary on the effects of the 300 year NYC experiences !!! Seems like they could sent NYC to the moon so to speak and it would still take the surrounding areas 100s of years to heal. Emotionally, it was depressing to watch. We went to GC, AZ in the late Aug- mid Sep time frame. It was absolutely GLORIOUS, sans the ride there. It rained literally cats and dogs (4 inches in 6 hours) all the way from Las Vegas, NV, but when it was time to take the 22 passenger plane ride, God did the Moses routine and the weather factors coalesced into some of the most spectacular views !! It was a very bumpy ride (even the two pilots held onto their hand rails), but totally spectacular !! |
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Replying to: larsb (Dec 30, 2008 7:48 am) Something is making the continents move too.  That chart that you posted is just one of a bunch of temperature spikes up and down on the chart gagrice posted. It fits the natural pattern of the past thousands of years. If you want to know what controls the temperature of the Earth, just consider the differences in night temp, cloudy day temperature, and then temp. in the sun. The sun's energy is the main effect on any planet in the solar system. To put things in perspective for you, you claim all the man-made GHG's over a century are part of a 1C rise in temperature. When the sun sets or rises the temperature changes 20C within hours.
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Replying to: larsb (Dec 30, 2008 9:06 am) I think three exclamation points qualify as well!!!  On the sea and carbon dioxide: "The worries begin at the surface, where an atmosphere newly laden with man-made carbon dioxide interacts with the briny. The sea has thus become more acidic, making life difficult, if not impossible, for marine organisms with calcium-carbonate shells or skeletons." The Economist |
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Replying to: larsb (Dec 30, 2008 9:06 am) They just stopped production this year. Hurry, there might be a few left. With all the taxes you and your friends are proposing, we'll be lucky if we can even afford a Yugo. "...No one of any consequence is preaching that anymore..." No one is preaching it because it was a disaster from a human standpoint. Just because no one advocates stuffing people 12 to a room doesn't mean it won't be necessary if you take away all other options. "...Stinking bus? Have you ridden a city bus in a major city LATELY?..." I think he was referring to the passengers, not the bus itself. On the other hand, I've read reports by "advocates" who say having school children ride on a school bus for an hour is causing a dramitic rise in asthma. I for one don't want to see people flopping on the ground like fish out of water. "...And the "Grand Canyon" is not nearly as "Grand" as it use to be..." I can't speak on that since I've never been there but how can the Grand Canyon be more polluted now with our cleaner cars and our manufacturing base moved to China than it was in the early 60's when cars didn't even have PCV valves? Are you sure that folks aren't confusing naturally occurring haze from moisture in the air with pollution? In a dry climate like that a little humidity could make a dramatic change in visibility, "..."Control the masses" is ridiculous..." Controlling the population is the basis for exerting power with any ruling elite from the Romans to the Communists. Some do it through terror, some do it through nationalism and some do it through guilt (don't you want to save the planet?). But make no mistake, those who crave power will seek to control your behavior. I once took a course in graduate school on community organizing. The professor stressed controlling the people in a neighborhood as the basis for accomplishing your goals. Control was so important in his mind that it was OK to make up lies in order to get people all riled up and driven to action. I asked him if he thought a cause loses it's moral standing if it is based on lies. He answered that every great movement in history was based on lies and I should "grow up". I guess I still haven't grown up. 
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Replying to: oldfarmer50 (Dec 30, 2008 10:47 am) I asked him if he thought a cause loses it's moral standing if it is based on lies. He answered that every great movement in history was based on lies and I should "grow up". I guess I still haven't grown up. "... It is truly part of the foundations; since before the republic was born (circa 1776). It seems that in his quest to beat John Adams for the US presidency, one of the founding fathers, the (romanticist) penner of THE CONSTITUTION no less, Thomas Jefferson engaged political press" smear a cists" to pen lies, innuendos, etc. against another founding father mover and shaker, John Adams, President and father of John Q. Adams, another US president. Seems it worked, as Adams' (the elder) second term BID was superceded by Thomas Jefferson's first term election.  This was the "aristocratic" ilk triumph over the so called "common man" ilk. It was the triumph of those that ADVOCATED war with FRANCE over peace with the same. The advocates of war actually benefitted FROM the peace. The principle that will be hard to over come is Sun Tzu's or attributed to him anyway: ... "No country, has ever benefitted from a protracted war".... app 4 BCE. Me thinks the global warm a cists views will be treated by history as one of the rallying mechanisms of du jour. It will be seen as a quaint concept in 50 to 100 years.... that is if the Frenchmen's Notradomus and the Mayan Civiliations 2012 predictions do not come true. Of course we will be able to gauge this by the rapture of folks like Pastor John Hagee
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Replying to: oldfarmer50 (Dec 30, 2008 10:47 am) I was up there bright and early in the morning a year ago June. It was absolutely beautiful. By the time we left it was getting polluted by dozens of stinky buses loaded down with tourists from all the high rises in Phoenix and the other large cities.  A little secret. Get there before 8 AM and the gates are open and no money changers on duty. Though I have a lifetime National Park Pass. larsb wrote: No one of any consequence is preaching that anymore. You can google Urban Sprawl and every major environmentalist group is lamenting the suburbs. Wanting to jam US as close together to take advantage of mass transit. Well, It just ain't healthy in my opinion. There is plenty of land if the enviro whackos don't get their way and stop all development. These well meaning people believe that keeping everyone close and tidy will protect the surrounding environment. That may be so. The problems created by jamming folks together in cities seems to far outweigh the damage to the surrounding area when people spread out a bit. Plant a few trees in the neighborhood. Quite frankly I don't understand how a human being can wake up in the morning and look out his window at the brick wall 10' from his window and not want to commit harry carry. Maybe it is just me. I like looking out my bedroom window and seeing the snowcapped San Jacinto mountain 63 air miles from my patio. Our air may not be clear as it was at the dawn of Creation, but 63 miles is not too shabby to be able to see most days. Now if we could just clean up the dead zone caused by over fertilizing corn for ethanol, we will have accomplished something GOOD. |
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Replying to: kernick (Dec 30, 2008 10:14 am) |
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I still think man-made climate change is a con Spending billions on trying to reduce carbon emissions is one giant con that is depriving third world countries of vital funds to tackle famine, HIV and other diseases, Sammy Wilson said. The DUP minister has been heavily criticised by environmentalists for claiming that ongoing climatic shifts are down to nature and not mankind. But while acknowledging his views on global warming may not be popular, the East Antrim MP said he was not prepared to be bullied by eco fundamentalists. “I’ll not be stopped saying what I believe needs to be said about climate change,” he said. most of the people who shout about climate change have not read one article about it “I think in 20 years’ time we will look back at this whole climate change debate and ask ourselves how on earth were we ever conned into spending the billions of pounds which are going into this without any kind of rigorous examination of the background, the science, the implications of it all. Because there is now a degree of hysteria about it, fairly unformed hysteria I’ve got to say as well. http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/environment/environment-minister-sammy-wi- lson-i-still-think-manmade-climate-change-is-a-con-14123972.html It is good to see that not all politicians are giving in to the ECO Bullies in the GW Cult. |
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