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Automotive News & Views Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?
6884 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 2:38 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: steve_ (Dec 30, 2008 7:33 am) I hate to get all logical on Booker, but none of this has anything to do with a disproof of AGW. Even if you accept his premise that we can't afford to reduce emissions, it does not follow that emissions are not causing warming. Nor does his argument prove that man is the major cause of the changes in Climate. My contention is now and has been since day one. If man is the cause of climate change, that change would be going up in a linear fashion. I think it is safe to say we have created more GHG this year than last around the globe. And more last year than the year before. Yet the global temperatures are not going all up as would be logical. Even if the scientist have made a case for the Global Temperatures rising over the last 28 years. It is not in step with the rise in man made GHG. Leading me to believe as others do, that we are a very insignificant part of Climate Change. I think the desperation is on the part of the CC followers. They have no practical solution to cutting GHG. Yet they burn tons of carbon flying around the world having parties, conferences, concerts etc, trying to get the masses to buy into their theory. What can the masses do. You think the billions of Chinese and Indians are going to cut back their progress after a hundred years of watching the rest of the World living it up. Do you think Americans will buy into more than a pittance of cutting back on what they produce in the course of trying to survive in a hostile economy. I am just too much of a Pragmatist to buy into this whole idea. |
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Replying to: larsb (Dec 30, 2008 7:48 am) 
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Replying to: larsb (Dec 30, 2008 7:48 am) Yeah, like the fact that the thermometer is now hanging in front of a sky-scraper instead of uncle Jeb's barn like it was in 1920.
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Replying to: oldfarmer50 (Dec 30, 2008 8:39 am)
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Replying to: ruking1 (Dec 30, 2008 8:47 am) |
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 30, 2008 8:56 am) Yugo? Really? Are they even for sale anymore? If there ANYONE out there saying "drive the smallest car available?" No. Drive the least polluting car that makes sense for your family and fits your budget and needs. "Push all the little people into high rise apartments?" Is anyone anywhere doing that? That was an urban restructuring plan from the 1960s. No one of any consequence is preaching that anymore. "Stinking Bus?" Have you ridden a city bus in a major city LATELY? I have - in San Fran and in Phoenix. And in neither case was the bus "stinky." And the "Grand Canyon" is not nearly as "Grand" as it used to be. Pollution has diminished the views. I was there in March 2008. So let's not get silly. "Control the masses" is ridiculous as a statement and totally misaligned with American public policy. |
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Replying to: larsb (Dec 30, 2008 9:06 am) I want a turbo diesel SUV that gets 30-40 mpg!! THEY STILL do not let them in!!!!! However they allow flex fuel E85 suv's that gets 25% less than the like model gassers 20 mpg or 15 mpg or less !!! The numbers belie the realities !!! ..."No one of any consequence is preaching that anymore. "... Well a lot of it is policy !!! It is literally improbable to build a single family house in this municipality. Do you want to build a 500 unit condo/apt complex, high rise low rise? It is almost no problem !!! What do you think has greater impacts a family of 4 or 500 familes of 4? Indeed it has been the opposing views that has served as the reality tests/counter points for some of these uncorrelated hypothesis', aka dogmas. I just saw a PBS program (Private Foundation sponsored) on "Swimming the Hudson River" . While I am sure it was unintentional, it was not a good graphic or commentary on the effects of the 300 year NYC experiences !!! Seems like they could sent NYC to the moon so to speak and it would still take the surrounding areas 100s of years to heal. Emotionally, it was depressing to watch. We went to GC, AZ in the late Aug- mid Sep time frame. It was absolutely GLORIOUS, sans the ride there. It rained literally cats and dogs (4 inches in 6 hours) all the way from Las Vegas, NV, but when it was time to take the 22 passenger plane ride, God did the Moses routine and the weather factors coalesced into some of the most spectacular views !! It was a very bumpy ride (even the two pilots held onto their hand rails), but totally spectacular !! |
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Replying to: larsb (Dec 30, 2008 7:48 am) Something is making the continents move too.  That chart that you posted is just one of a bunch of temperature spikes up and down on the chart gagrice posted. It fits the natural pattern of the past thousands of years. If you want to know what controls the temperature of the Earth, just consider the differences in night temp, cloudy day temperature, and then temp. in the sun. The sun's energy is the main effect on any planet in the solar system. To put things in perspective for you, you claim all the man-made GHG's over a century are part of a 1C rise in temperature. When the sun sets or rises the temperature changes 20C within hours.
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Replying to: larsb (Dec 30, 2008 9:06 am) I think three exclamation points qualify as well!!!  On the sea and carbon dioxide: "The worries begin at the surface, where an atmosphere newly laden with man-made carbon dioxide interacts with the briny. The sea has thus become more acidic, making life difficult, if not impossible, for marine organisms with calcium-carbonate shells or skeletons." The Economist |
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Replying to: larsb (Dec 30, 2008 9:06 am) They just stopped production this year. Hurry, there might be a few left. With all the taxes you and your friends are proposing, we'll be lucky if we can even afford a Yugo. "...No one of any consequence is preaching that anymore..." No one is preaching it because it was a disaster from a human standpoint. Just because no one advocates stuffing people 12 to a room doesn't mean it won't be necessary if you take away all other options. "...Stinking bus? Have you ridden a city bus in a major city LATELY?..." I think he was referring to the passengers, not the bus itself. On the other hand, I've read reports by "advocates" who say having school children ride on a school bus for an hour is causing a dramitic rise in asthma. I for one don't want to see people flopping on the ground like fish out of water. "...And the "Grand Canyon" is not nearly as "Grand" as it use to be..." I can't speak on that since I've never been there but how can the Grand Canyon be more polluted now with our cleaner cars and our manufacturing base moved to China than it was in the early 60's when cars didn't even have PCV valves? Are you sure that folks aren't confusing naturally occurring haze from moisture in the air with pollution? In a dry climate like that a little humidity could make a dramatic change in visibility, "..."Control the masses" is ridiculous..." Controlling the population is the basis for exerting power with any ruling elite from the Romans to the Communists. Some do it through terror, some do it through nationalism and some do it through guilt (don't you want to save the planet?). But make no mistake, those who crave power will seek to control your behavior. I once took a course in graduate school on community organizing. The professor stressed controlling the people in a neighborhood as the basis for accomplishing your goals. Control was so important in his mind that it was OK to make up lies in order to get people all riled up and driven to action. I asked him if he thought a cause loses it's moral standing if it is based on lies. He answered that every great movement in history was based on lies and I should "grow up". I guess I still haven't grown up. 
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