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Automotive News & Views Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?
6979 messages, Last post on Dec 05, 2009 at 4:49 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 19, 2008 7:36 am) I mean the so called GW/GCC recitations/rituals are tiresome at best. All the way from paper clips (global warming/GCC) to making nuclear weapons less radioactive (GW/GCC you know !!) Now it (weapons issue) would be funny if it were NOT so sadly true !!! |
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Replying to: lemmer (Dec 19, 2008 8:04 am) So yes, if you are related to monkeys, I do feel sorry for the monkeys??? 
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Replying to: lemmer (Dec 19, 2008 8:04 am) Probably better not to get into that debate here. The key is the Creationists are not advocating a BIG FAT TAX for what is perceived to be the cause of our planet warming. The Creationists are not trying to push our lifestyle back into the caves. The Creationists are not telling US we should drive some little death trap econobox car. The Creationists are not even allowed to give their theory in our public schools. Even Russia is now allowing creation to be taught along with the THEORY of evolution.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 18, 2008 3:29 pm) Data of the climate changing, would be the norm. Looking at the climate for many millions of years we see the Earth is much hotter and colder, and had temperature changes at a higher rate and CO2 levels much higher also. None of this is proof that mankind is now significantly changing what otherwise would occur. In order to determine if mankind is changing the climate, you need a thorough knowledge of how the climate works which includes the whole solar energy input, and natural cycles of all organisms and natural emissions and absorptions. Only then can you begin to use temperature data to determine if the changes humans make, then don't fit the model. My contention is that you can you go to different science journals constantly and find articles on discoveries of undersea vents, undersea frozen methane, ... that weren't know to exist and which will significantly alter the mix of the climate, that obviously aren't included in any models. Or does anyone know accurately what solar activity was like 100 years ago, such that they can determine the sun's energy output then, relative to today? Maybe a rough idea? Maybe they took temperatures too, with not so accurate mercury thermometers too, near much less paved and energy intensive cities?
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Replying to: kernick (Dec 19, 2008 8:27 am) While the GW/GCC folks want to codify magical thinking (some in the human behavioral discipline would call it delusional), the fact of the matter while they want to link causality, they are not even close to getting it to a level of a linked hypothesis !! They will not even put a % to what impacts ARE human generated. So let us wave the magic wand and ask if we eliminated ALL human impacts..... what would that actually do??????? |
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 19, 2008 8:14 am) As for the insinuation that the creationists have no agenda that might cause bias - really? You really believe that? You don't think the creationists want to change the lifestyle of other people? Honestly? And for the money argument - creationists don't want our money? Really? You want to hang your hat on that? In any case, I'd rather stick to science rather than emotions and conspiracy theories.
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http://folk.uio.no/tomvs/esef/ESEF3VO2.htm And if you don't like the qualitative line of argument, here's the quantitative. "The apparent annual atmospheric CO2 level increase, postulated to be anthropogenic, would constitute only some 0.2% of the total annual amount of CO2 exchanged naturally between the atmosphere and the ocean plus other natural sources and sinks. It is more probable that such a small ripple in the annual natural flow of CO2 would be caused by natural fluctuations of geophysical processes." 0.2% of all the CO2 being created and reabsorbed doesn't sound very significant to me! Man-made GW is nothing more than a boogie-man created by environmentalists to in one fell swoop, provide a reason to slow or stop all development and moves to industrialization. Significant human caused GW is as proven as - the 15th century scientific concensus that - the Earth is Flat.
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Replying to: kernick (Dec 19, 2008 10:24 am)  Keep in mind we already have the functional equivalent of "an invisible KU KLUX KLAN " in some of those extreme environmental groups. Some notable events have been car dealership, housing development torchings. |
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I think what will happen is that America will continue to bury its head in the sand and then Japan and Europe will develop all the "clean tech" that we will desperately need in a decade or two, and they will clean our clocks economically by selling it to us. I can tell how sadly uninformed American are merely by seeing how some 40% don't even believe in evolution, a theory that has been proven overwhelmingly. The evidence is vast, skull-crushing, overpowering, total and indisputable. it's sad really. Detroit and the Big Three is the perfect model for the American mind now that I think about it. |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Dec 19, 2008 11:15 am) Yup, got to love evolution and the UAW !! Of course the management is firmly woven in that equation also. Now I do not know if that is the good news or the bad news. Keep in mind (as if anyone on the planet hasn't heard) our new majority biggie government bought us those exact three white elephants or was that 15B a down payment? . ..."Detroit and the Big Three is the perfect model for the American mind now that I think about it. "... Yup, got to love evolution and the UAW !! Of course the management is firmly woven in that equation also. Now I do not know if that is the good news or the bad news. Keep in mind (as if anyone on the planet hasn't heard) our new majority biggie government bought us those exact three white elephants or was that 15B a down payment? . I do not doubt your sincerity, but the US has the intellectual, etc., etc., capacities to far exceed Europe and Asia. We have been doing it for 70 or so years. All that needs to be done is a "Kennedy like" throwing down the gauntlet (To moon in June or whatever blather it was at the time) by Obama..... burn H20 in the passenger vehicle car by 20XX !!!! Kennedy green lighted Vietnam and we all know how that turned out, so I hope Obama gets us out da middle east. Do get out da Europe while he is at it !!! Well don' forget Asia too.
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