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Automotive News & Views Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?
6771 messages, Last post on Nov 22, 2009 at 8:40 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 23, 2008 4:47 pm) But KPFA streams on the net too. Sounds like it's bluegrass night there. [edit - Ruking, usually you can find the stream just by going to the web site; otherwise try Shoutcast.com or similar for 1,000s of stations worldwide.] |
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Thanks for the link. I can only get that OTHER school's ( Stanford's) 90.00 FM in these parts. I was pulling your chain on KPFA. Its pretty clear down here  94.10 FM.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 23, 2008 4:24 pm) If your a student of history you will realize that the timeline is littered with the best scientists of their era being wrong. And I can certainly with a straight face standup and say "man is heavily impacting" as heavily is very subjective, and could be anywhere from 0.001% to 99.999%, without being a lie. I'd say burden of proof is now on the skeptics. No. In science proof is required of those proposing something. The FDA does not do testing; it reviews the testing presented. Similarly when cold-fusion was announced, the burden of proof is on the proposers. I just saw a National Geographic show concerning the Vikings and Europe in the 1200-1600 time-frame and sudden climate change has been documented in pre-industrial ages. Even today the amount of emissions from man is small compared to nature. The amount of energy we use is very small compared to the Sun's and other radiations that reaches the air and surface of the Earth. I think you need to stop thinking man is the omnipotent factor in nature; do a little research and look at the numbers on nature's emissions and energy, relative to humans. |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 23, 2008 4:24 pm)
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Replying to: joshuag (Nov 24, 2008 1:00 am) The question isn't whether the Earth is heating or cooling, or staying the same (which really never happens if you measure the temperature precisely enough). We can look back thru the geological and historical records and see that there have been rapid temperature swings both ways. The question is is whether man is having a significant impact. I have yet to see Al Gore or any of the other GW proponents show the mathematical equations of the variables that one could sit down and plug the numbers into. Does anyone know here where this equation resides that you or I can view it? I want to see that scientists understand how the oceans, air, sun, geothermal venting and biosystems all interact. For example - I want to see where scientists have mapped all the methane emission points around the world, and how much of this potent GHG is going into the air. I want THE equation. Tie up all the loose ends of these variables, and show me that man's contribution is significant. Let's sail to the edge of the Earth and show me that it's flat.
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Replying to: joshuag (Nov 24, 2008 1:00 am) A lot more scientists have been shut out or lost their jobs for presenting data that refutes the man made GW theories, than those that join to cash in on the carbon credit windfall. There is a real lack of honest debate in the scientific community. What makes it very difficult is having a 100+ countries contributing money to scientists that will go along with the agenda. I have a real problem with UN conferences where dissent is considered heresy. The only consensus is in the minds of those that decided GW was man made before seeing any evidence. |
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Replying to: kernick (Nov 24, 2008 5:26 am) It's written down on the same page where gravity is explained. Hmmm, no equation there, no wonder I'm levitating. 
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 24, 2008 7:58 am) Garbage in = Garbage out. I would like to see whether they are feeding garbage in. You seem to be willing trust a political scientific group that may or may not be biased; as there is quite a bit of $ and fame involved here. When $ and fame are involved, I don't trust human weaknesses. Ever since multiple expert individuals and departments of the U.S. got up in front of us and made the case of WMD in Iraq, "absolutely-positive; verified by hundreds of scientists, witnesses, satellites and analysts ..." I have to reconsider these sort of issues. The case for GW may not be much different. I certainly see no signs of any significant GW; and if there is any I see no compelling mathematical case that it is humans and not natural. All I see is a group of well-paid scientists and bureaucrats promoting their careers and finances. I hear their words (that and $1.00 will get you a cup of coffee); I see no proof.
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Replying to: kernick (Nov 24, 2008 8:09 am) I've seen glacier shrinkage in the last 25 years (Portage being the most notable one). But I'm not a scientist, in climate fields or otherwise. But they've certainly got my attention. When $ and fame are involved, I don't trust human weaknesses. Remember the YouTube high school science teacher link posted here a year or more ago? I guess the guy got his 15 minutes of YouTube fame, but he's teaching about greenhouse gas emissions for little fame, and being a teacher, certainly not much money. Are you going to focus on Gore or the greenhouse? In the news, Governors push climate agenda. (Chron.com) |
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 24, 2008 8:55 am) And how is that proof that it is (significantly) caused by man's industrialization? "According to one theory, he says, the boundary walls were abandoned between 1300 and 1400 A.D., probably because the climate changed. It turned cold. Animals died, farms failed and people starved, leaving no one to tend the walls. This hump on the ground offers a glimpse of just how much climate influenced the history of these early settlers." http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16835101 And before that the climate had warmed and cooled. And there were no automobiles and industry, unless you want to blame climate change on the 100 million or so people lighting camp-fires. 
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