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Automotive News & Views Are automobiles a major cause of global warming?
6771 messages, Last post on Nov 22, 2009 at 8:40 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: kernick (Jul 14, 2008 12:57 pm) More freight moved by trains and barges could mean fewer trucks, and maybe fewer emissions (to touch on the topic a little). |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 14, 2008 8:18 am) I consider education, project engineering (dam building, power plant building) Transport infrastructure building, R&D as investment. Any amount invested in those should improve human, economic or environmental benefit. I consider gulf war, welfare spending, infrastructure upkeep as spendings. I am advocating less spending and more investment. Some spendings are necessary, but others could be cut. >That money is spent. Do you mean there is no way to stop the counter anymore ? The national debt is a serious issues and maybe tackling it from the root would prove effective. I suspect HST and mass transit investments were not the reason. >we are near revolt over the current gas prices. mm, not sure if the mindset of cheap gas being a right as equal as free speech is a healthy one. US prices are still half of European prices, so US motorists should be happy. >Why do people think that we should tax automobile drivers to finance mass transit? Because the polluter should be the payer. Gas is not only rejecting CO2 but also many other dangerous gas. Gas is deepening US trade deficit, gas is inherently unsustainable. Current gas prices don't reflect that. >why not tack an additional tax on air travel. That is also a good idea, provided that money be also used to offer alternatives. The problem is that I don't see alternatives for overseas flights. >Last I read a cross country flight dumps as much CO2 per passenger seat as a small car in one year (about 5 tons) I think a cross country high speed line would allow the same trip overnight. This would be a great project. It is true aircraft CO2 release is a true problem and HST bring solutions to that, albeit not 100% perfect. >No buying carbon credits for the rich. Carbon trading is a key environmental development opportunity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_credit#How_buying_carbon_credits_can_reduce_- emissions We are still in the early stages, so not perfect yet. This is not a reason to throw it away. > I am thinking we will all have electric cars soon. Then What do we need mass transit for? because congestion won't be tackled by individual cars and railways are the best answer to that. Some people want to have the choice in their transportation mix.
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Jul 14, 2008 8:31 am) The problem is that the project is still not started : building has not commenced yet and it looks like it is set to slip by another year. The project is dating back from 1998 where gas was cheap. I can't imagine how it would like if it was operational already. >Now you're seeing the light Depends how one understand it. I meant it in a humorous way. Water vapor accounts for the majority of current GH effect. in fact we need green house effect, otherwise there would be no life on earth. However, the increase in man made GHG (CO2, Methane, NOx, CFC..) is upsetting the balance. Unprecedented levels of GHG are strongly influencing the climate and every month, there are new studies supporting that. With the permafrost melting in Siberia, we can expect a massive amount of methane release in the air. It may become an uncontrollable chain reaction. I am not throwing stones. I don't need because the environment will do it in my place. I just think we had plenty of warning signals and it is not good just doing nothing (or drilling more)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jul 14, 2008 8:44 am) it is currently 200 mph =320 km/h on the LGV-Est (Paris to Strasbourg) Alstom unveiled their new 225 mph HST unit which claims same electricity consumption as older units going 187mph. >I think the CA HST plan will be long on promises and short of cash. There must be a strong political will for it. Currently, it is not the case. >If all we get to do is lay track that kind of sounds like the original railroads. it is a major engineering project, with many planning, mapping, digging, bridges, tunnels, roadside development, signalling, overhead wires... track laying is rather at the final stage of it |
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Replying to: vchiu (Jul 14, 2008 6:25 pm) How do you know that as a fact? Studies are popularity contest for Al Gore. The earth's ecosystem is too big to be affected thus. >CO2, Methane, NOx, CFC..) is upsetting the balance. The tenet of the green folk is that CO2 causes the problem. Yet the atmosphere of Mars has 80 times the CO2 of earth and it's not superhot. So much for greenhouse effect of CO2. I'm always curious how people know that the one item is the single item in the controlled experiment that causes something or other re the multiplicity of homeostases in the earth's systems. How do you know that? I can answer! You don't, but it makes feel good talk.
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Replying to: kernick (Jul 14, 2008 12:57 pm) Well it seems now highways' main purpose is personal transportation. HST is a passenger train, but the same railways could be used for goods transport as well. >I think systems should be paid for by those who use the system. This is a logical thinking but how to do for the HST (or any future R&D or transportation project) ? There is none existing and the bulk of the investment must be done years before the line enters into service. it is the current loophole. Nobody wants to pay for a non-existing train, and this is the reason the biggest failure of HST is in America. I think the US government is using double standards, as they paid the many billions for the Interstate system, considering it would benefit the country in a whole, but can't extend that thinking to HST, even though benefits are easily proven in the face of environment, service quality and expensive oil.
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Replying to: vchiu (Jul 14, 2008 6:10 pm) First it is debatable if any of that is legal from a Constitutional standpoint. I know our government has done a lot of those things under the very shaky grounds of "Common Good". You will get arguments right here on Edmund's concerning hydro dams being environmentally sound. We will probably not see any more in the USA. I personally feel all those things are best done by private enterprise with making a profit as incentive. No profit poor idea. That includes mass transit. Now if a city or state decides to build mass transit such as HST and the PEOPLE vote to borrow the money I cannot say anything but, OH Well..... US motorists should be happy. Trust me they are anything but happy. I think it will be reflected in the 2008 election. Personally I hope they vote every stinking incumbent running out of Congress. Carbon trading is a key environmental development opportunity. When this idea hit the airwaves it all came clear to me. The whole Global Warming scam is designed to make money. Buying your way out of GW responsibility STINKS of elitism to the max. You cannot jet set around the globe and plant a few Mango trees in Africa and be cleansed of your part in "GW". Either EVERYONE sacrifices or it is a SCAM for the wealthy to further push the middle class into the ranks of the POOR. When you state that it is not perfect that would be an understatement for sure. Planting mango trees where they do not get enough water. Handing out CFL bulbs as compensation for big GW concerts all smell to high heaven. The high priest of GW Al Gore has made $100,000,000+ in 7 short years with this scam. Calling GW or climate change anything but a charade is beyond my realm of belief. There is a better chance that the Heaven's Gate wackos ended up on a space ship behind Hale Bopp Comet, than all the catastrophic occurences Al Gore claims will come to pass. Many of the so called 2000 scientists are bailing out because the UN distorted their findings and politicized the whole report. Why, To make money. Extract money from the rich countries. The UN lost their oil for money scam when we got rid of Saddam. They need a new scam and GW was ripe for the picking. because congestion won't be tackled by individual cars and railways are the best answer to that. I agree with you that congestion is only going to get worse in this country. Will people buy into riding the train after having the freedom of personal transportation? I just do not think they will. Riding the train in the EU is something everyone there was raised with and accept. Most people here have never been on a train. I have put my wife on the Coaster a few times to go see her grandkids the other side of LA. It is better for one person traveling. It beats fighting the LA traffic. Maybe if the cost of gas gets so high that people have no choice. I think our economy will fold before that happens. We may be on the brink right now. If we do come up with alternatives to fossil fuel such as algae for diesel or cheap batteries for cars or even hydrogen fuel cells that are inexpensive. How are you going to convince some one that has an electric car that only costs pennies a day to operate that he should get on a stinking bus or even a high speed train? |
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Jul 14, 2008 6:44 pm) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas#Natural_and_anthropogenic There are quite a few studies mentioned in the article footnote. On the other hand, I find little or no evidence showed by the GW/CC deniers. >The earth's ecosystem is too big to be affected thus. Not sure where you found such information. You may need to wait a cataclysm to accept there is a problem. I guess the North pole ice sheet melting would just make you shrug >Yet the atmosphere of Mars has 80 times the CO2 of earth and it's not superhot I still find the ability for Mars to support human life pretty challenging. Have you considered that Mars is 230 million km away from the sun, whereas the earth is 150 million km ? How about taking into account the difference in atmosphere density. Mars has only 1% of the Earth atmosphere density. >How do you know that? I can answer! You don't, but it makes feel good talk. Not sure about what you mean. sorry for my poor English. I just learned somehow that laws of physics can not be changed and that one property of CO2 is to trap heat.
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Replying to: vchiu (Jul 14, 2008 6:55 pm) That was done under a different era. It was done by a military man thinking of moving men and equipment easily around the USA. It was also lobbied for by GM, Ford and Chrysler as a way to stimulate CAR sales. It pretty much destroyed the passenger railroad business in the USA. Keep in mind the Interstate system ended up costing US $114 billion and 23 years later than planned to complete. Zip forward to 2008. CA has this HST plan that has been tossed around for 10 or more years. No price tag just more money to study and think about it. If it costs the projected $40 billion for JUST the SF to LA segment or 432 miles. What would it cost for a Nation wide system. LA to NY what $350 billion. Seattle to Chicago $300 billion. To cover the USA that is 3000 miles by 1500 miles would cost TRILLIONS of dollars Today. We are looking at Presidential candidates that want to bankrupt US with universal health care. There ain't no money for trains. That is too far in the future. Even that little 432 mile run from SF to LA would probably not be done for 10 years if it gets voted in this year. This is a knee jerk society. Gas goes up people buy Prius. Gas goes down they buy the biggest SUV. We do not think 10 years ahead. So for US to vote on spending money over the next 10 years to maybe have this fast train that serves only the people in LA and SF will have a tough go at the polls. Why would anyone in San Diego or Redding vote to help out those in LA and SF. We don't even like them... 
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