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Hybrid Vehicles Saturn VUE Green Line Hybrid Saturn VUE Green Line - Real World MPG Numbers
84 messages, Last post on Jan 12, 2009 at 2:47 PM
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Replying to: chmsomm (Nov 09, 2008 2:02 pm) Just so we are on the same page and there are no misunderstandings. I'm trying real hard to justify purchasing a hybrid from somebody. I happen to like the looks and some other virtues of the Vue. Am still considering the possibility of replacing the CR-V with a Vue. Thus I'm on Vue forums. Also considering a Hybrid. Thus I'm on this particular forum. There is nothing wrong with the CR-V. Just ready for something different. I understand there are "TROLLS" that visit forums to stir up controversy, I also understand there are those that exaggerate the truth to satisfy their own agenda and make themselves feel better about choices they have made. I am neither of those. I'm here to find the truth and make an informed decision. I'm retired and VALUE is important . When someone makes a statement as though it is "Truth" I investigate. You stated the comfort of your Vue and how you were crammed like a sardine into the CR-V. Also that the CR-V is a nice "Small" SUV. I investigated and found your statements difficult to understand. as the Vue has the smaller dimensions. As a scientist, you can certainly appreciate repeatable facts. FACTS are that the CR-V has more leg room front and back than the Vue, which should accomodate your longer legs better. It also has more hip and shoulder room which should accomodate your body size better. To back up those FACTS I copied and posted the actual specs, for your viewing pleasure.  I understand the "Perception is Reality" thing, although it is not scientific. Your perception of the driving position may be better in the Vue, for you, and you may be "Riding" in an older, smaller, less powerful CR-V. But truth be known, the CR-V is larger for the occupants and has considerably more luggage/cargo space. Plenty of power to deal with any paved road, and many that aren't paved. This forum is about the Green Line Vue. For me, the question is whether or not the Hybrid is right for me and mine. You wrote, "The other item was the comparison of mileage, the difference of which I found to me much greater than what you listed." Used 22 for the CR-V although EPA says 23 I think. And used the EPA numbers for the Vue Hybrid. Those number are actually dealing with greater difference in mileage than actual drivers posted on http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ . Seems the drivers aren't getting the EPA ratings from the Vue. What numbers would you like to consider? FWIW: Based on Edmunds numbers the "Base" Green Line has a $4880 higher MSRP than the Base 4 cylinder model. Add in 6% sales tax, Financing the Green Line at MSRP, at 5% for 60 months will cost $100 more per month than financing the 4 Cylinder Vue. According to Edmunds auto calculator. Understandably, there may be some tax incentives for the Hybrid, but there may also be some Manufacturers incentives for the gasser. Let us use a probably unrealistic 10 mpg difference between the Hybrid and Gasser? At 15000 miles per year the 32 mpg hybrid will use 469 gallons of fuel. The 22mpg gasser will use 682 gallons. The Hybrid uses 213 fewer gallons. At $3 the savings are $639 yearly. At $4 the savings are $852 yearly. At $5 they are $1065 yearly. Seems wonderful until we figure back in the extra $1200 per year car note. The less we drive the less the fuel savings, but that $1200 extra car note marches right along for those 5 years. You wrote: "Remember. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"." What I did for my country was serve 8 years in the military. Work and pay taxes. Not take any hand outs or welfare from the government. . Keep my thermostat on 70 in the winter and 78 in the summer. Exceed EPA ratings on my cars. I don't like sending $700 Billion a year to terrorist countries any more than anyone else. Fact is that we don't need to, other than the congress won't allow us to fix it. There are huge amounts of oil, oil shale, natural gas, and coal under our soil and off our coast.. We need to go after them. That would create 10s of thousands of jobs and keep that $700 billion right here. ANWR oil could be flowing in the Alaska pipeline in 1 to 3 years. Oil from 3 western states possibly sooner than that. Lower the national speed limit to 65 mph and enforce it. Create "Plug In" Electric vehicles for the short distance commuters and trips to the store. They already have that for all practical purposes. Leave off the gas engine and associated hardware and add more batteries and a AC to Dc charger. Why don't the auto mfgs do that? Why doesn't congress allow the energy companies to harvest more oil and gas. Hmmmm...!  Not forgetting wind, nuclear, solar and tide energy sources. About 25% of the oil we use powers automobiles.  Thanks, Kip
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No one talks on this site and then there are 15 posts in less than a week. Go figure. A person feeling they are doing the right thing by being more "Green" is admirable and priceless. A person feeling they are saving a lot of money is not looking at the total cost. -- Kip I have looked at the costs, will use my numbers and you can be the judge. Since, I have driven the furthest and gotten the best documented gas mileage of any Saturn Hybrid Vue owner here is my bottom line on my BREAKEVEN point: Back in December of 2006 Hybrid Vue cost $2250 less that the Regular view. I received a $650 tax credit on my 2006 income taxes $2250 - $650 = $1600 difference. In the first two years of operation I have saved $1002.78 in gas. That figure is derived from the fact that the Regular Vue gets 5 mpg less that of the Hybrid Vue. Source = FuelEconomy.gov 2007 Hybrid Vue 23 City 29 highway 26 avg 2007 Regular 4 cyl Automatic 19 City 25 highway 21 avg I have taken the 5 mpg difference, computed the savings for each tank and have added up the savings. As of 11/7/2008 my 59,095 miles equates to a savings of $1002.78. Source - my excel spreadsheet. $1600 - $1002.78 = $597.22 I still have $597.22 to breakeven. That should occur in the next 14 - 16 months based upon my current driving patterns and gas prices of around $2.50. Therefore, strickly on a cost/gas basis I breakeven in 3 years and a few months. However, that does not take into consideration that the resale value of a Hybrid Vue vs a similarly equiped Vue. According to Kelly's Blue Book = my Saturn Hybrid Vue would net in excellent condition $11,670 vs a similarly configured excellent condition 4cyl Vue at $8,655. A difference of $3,015. Therefore, if I sold my Hybrid Vue tomorrow I would would still be in the hole $597.22 but get $3,015 more. Therefore, I would net $2,417.78. Looking at the big picture I have already reached the breakeven point and continue to increase my value. In addition, one must also consider the environmental benefits. Using the 5 mgp better figure from Fuel Economy.gov - I have already saved 335.044 gallons of gas. If down the road the Hybrid will need a new battery I will be well on the positive side of the equation. The cost of a new battery and installation should be offset by my gas/cost and resale value benefits. Therefore - #1> BREAKEVEN Point has been reached regardless of if I need a new battery at 100,000 miles or not. #2> I am up $2,417.78. #3> I have saved 335.044 gallons in the process. #4> Not to mention I love driving my Saturn Hybrid Vue.
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Replying to: hybridvue (Nov 10, 2008 10:14 am) Did you mean to say the Hybrid was cheaper, or was that a type-O? If the Hybrid was cheaper, you would have been ahead with the Hybrid as soon as you drove off the dealer lot. Great deal!  At present time the Hybrids are $27930 and the gasser 4 cylinders are $23050 MSRP. According to Edmunds. Tax credits and "dealing" have to also fall into the mix. Good Post! Thanks, Kip
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Replying to: kipk (Nov 10, 2008 4:05 am) Happy Veterans Day. Semper Fi. I spent 6 years in the service. Since you state you are considering a hybrid. Would I buy a 2008 Hybrid Vue? The answer is no. Saturn has significantly jacked up the price on the 2008 GreenLines. I think the payback is questionable on the 2008s. I also think Saturn has to demonstrate they have fixed the electical harness and battery problems that plagued the 2007s. Read my other posts. I am pretty darn hard on Saturn. I purchased my 2007 GreenLine using a discount. Also had 0% financing. Very significant discount on the extended warranty. Overall, I got a pretty good deal on the 2007 GreenLine. I like getting 26-28 mpg on the commute. I keep my cars 6-8 yrs. Ask me what I think of the Hybrid Vue in 5-6 yrs. The question is the price for plug-in hybrids that will be out in 2009-2010? What is hybrid surcharge and what will the payback point be? Sorry that you feel I am being dishonest about my comparison, but I stand by my evaluation.I really feel crammed into the CRV. It is very uncomfortable for me. Head room, leg room, shoulder room issues. Ergonomics? Usable room? This will be my last post on the issue.
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Replying to: chmsomm (Nov 10, 2008 5:37 pm) Happy veterans day. I don't feel at all that you are being dishonest. As I said before, it is most likely a Perception is Reality thing. In this case it could have a lot to do with where you are seated in each vehicle and so forth. I apologize for anything that sounded like accusations on my part. Twelve years ago I bought a new 06 Dodge Ram Pickup. A few months later a friend bought a New 07 model with the same drive train. Of course we had to "test" them. It was pretty much a dead heat 3 times. He later had a fairly expensive "Cat Back" duel exhaust system installed and a K&M intake. His truck sounded good and seemed to have a lot more power, to both of us. Another "Test" resulted in my truck being a little quicker than his, 3 times. The exhaust tones and noisy intake gave the perception of more power. Perception! Please stick around and participate on the subject. I'm trying to make an informed decision. Without participation, it will be most difficult. Thanks for your insight on the 08 Vue What is/was the problem with wiring and batteries on the Vue? Thanks, Kip
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Replying to: kipk (Nov 11, 2008 4:49 am) 
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Replying to: dmathews3 (Nov 11, 2008 6:03 am) Apparently the caffeine had not kicked in yet when I wrote that! Please substitute the 06 and 07 numbers to 96 and 97.  Thanks, Kip |
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Replying to: kipk (Nov 10, 2008 1:18 pm) Back in December of 2006 Hybrid Vue cost $2250 MORE that the Regular view. The numbers in my situation follow my logic. One should run the numbers prior to making a decision. If the Hybrid is substantially more expensive and federal tax credits are considerably less or zero - those are factors to consider in your purchase. Back in 2006 the difference was small. Seems for the 2008 models that gap has widened. The issue Saturn had with was with a potentially faulty wiring harness. The fix was not intended to impact your hybrid operation one way or the other UNLESS your vehicle is one that has the wiring / alternator issue. To over-simplify, the wiring harness can intermittently mis-communicate with the alternator. The alternator says "I don't know what you're trying to tell me to do, so I won't do anything". That includes charging the batteries. The fix is a more robust harness to alternator interaction via the replacement harness. Again, I am over-simplifying, but hopefully now you get the gist. I had it replaced in March of 2007. I did not have any problems before or after the installation.
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Replying to: hybridvue (Nov 12, 2008 6:43 am) I have not had problems since the electrical harness was replaced. Knock on wood. I will be taking my 2007 GreenLine in for routine service in December. At that time I will have have the battery examined (batteries were recalled due to voltage imbalance problems about 6 months ago?) when I take it in. The charge/assist seems to be fine at the present. Have not heard anything about the 2008s, hence my comments about not recommending one until word was out on correction of those problems (harness and battery). |
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Are these correct statements? The "electric" portion of the GL is to allow the gas engine to shut off for a predetermined time at stop signs, red lights and so forth, and the "battery" keeps the AC radio and other accessories operating. Forward or rearward propulsion of the car is dependent on the gas engine, and the electric motor is never the only source of propulsion.. The purpose of the "electric" motor is to help the gas engine during acceleration , and help in re charging the "battery" while braking. Are those accurate statements? If not, please explain. Thanks, Kip
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