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Hybrid Vehicles Saturn VUE Green Line Hybrid Saturn VUE Green Line - Real World MPG Numbers
84 messages, Last post on Jan 12, 2009 at 2:47 PM
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Replying to: kipk (Nov 07, 2008 8:21 am) Correction on above sentence: According to http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ the mileage for the 17 reported 2007-2008 Vue models is 25.95. The 25 reported 2007 and 2008 CR-V average was 24.55 mpg. That is averaging the 2 years together. Don't how that the 1.5 mpg advantage of the Hybrid Vue could ever really pay for itself, other than self satisfaction. Even a 5 mpg advantage for "average driving" would take years and many miles to pay back the higher initial cost. Kip
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Replying to: kipk (Nov 07, 2008 10:12 am) Some of it would depend upon the duty cycle. If a person drove each vehicle in the same fuel-efficient conservative fashion, the hybrid might pay for itself after a few years of primarily Urban cycle, where the hybrid technology shines. If many of the miles are on the freeway at highway speeds, there isn't as much advantage to the hybrid. I think that a CR-V would get around 22-23 in town, wherease a hybrid Vue should get around 28-31, possibly more depending upon how hard the driver "works" to maximize the hybrid technology. Obviously it also depends on the price of gas, which is currently low. But try the comparison at $5 per gallon and see what happens...
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Replying to: stevedebi (Nov 07, 2008 9:46 am) Re checked and I did pick up the gross weight. Vehicle weight is 3389 for the CR-V Base model. Therefore the Vue Hybrid is heavier, which would account for weight of the batteries and electric drive system. The extra length of the Vue is most likely in front of the windshield to accomodate the V6. Point remains that the CR-V is not to be considered a small SUV. Thanks, Kip |
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Replying to: stevedebi (Nov 07, 2008 10:29 am) Figured financing the extra initial cost over a 6 year period and going 16,666 miles yearly. So the car would be payed off at 100K miles. Seems we used 45 mpg for the Hybrid and 35 for the Gas. It took the better part of the 100K miles and the 6 years to hit a break even point. Putting aside the reported figures and using your above 22 mpg for the gas engined car and 28 for the Hybrid, the gasser would use 146 more gallons of fuel over a 15000 mile drive. About 1 year for the average driver. At $3 the hybrid would save $438 fuel cost. At $4 it would save $584. At $5 it would save $730. With no interest involved at all the: $3 gas would take 9.1 years and 136,000 miles to reach a break even point and start really saving any money. At $4 it would take 6.8 years and 102,739 miles. The $5 gas would take 5.5 years and 82,191 miles to do the same. If you consider the extra interest for the $4000, the times and mileages would be longer and higher. We don't actually know how long the batteries will last, cost of replacements, or any extra expense on the electric drive and regenerating components. A person feeling they are doing the right thing by being more "Green" is admirable and priceless. A person feeling they are saving a lot of money is not looking at the total cost.  Kip
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Replying to: kipk (Nov 07, 2008 11:53 am)
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Replying to: dmathews3 (Nov 07, 2008 1:01 pm) To make an intelligent buying decision, we need to know the warranty on the batteries and associated "Electric Drive" components. We need to know the replacement cost, including labor. What warranty does the Vue have on these items. How about the "starter" for the gas engine that will be used a lot for every trip! My concern is that the battery pack may need replacing around 100K miles and the price will be in the $3000-$5000 range, depending on car make and model. Therefore, just about the time the Vue hybrid is beginning to reach the "break even point" there is another $3K-$5K EXPENSE that has to be over ridden. So the owner is right back where he or she started, more or less and will never actually save any money unless gas prices exceed $6 per gallon. (Which could happen). Except that now the car has 100K on the clock and may not be worth much more than the price of the battery pack. So does it become a throw away car? Or does the fact that it is a Hybrid enhance it's resale value to a point that battery replacement is worthwhile. To attempt trading in the car before the batteries crash would surely have an effect on the value of the trade. For example, a 5-6 year old gasser with 80K miles, might be worth, say $4-$5K. A hybrid in same condition is getting close to battery replacement time and the dealer MUST take that into consideration. What is GM doing to make that a non issue? Battery technology has improved greatly over the past few years. How will that affect an 08-09 Vue, in 5 years? Will the same charging and regenerating systems of an 09 car be able to deal with newer battery types in the future? Will battery prices decrease dramatically like the prices of flat/thin TV sets? Or will today's Hybrids be obsolete  Thanks, Kip |
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Please note I ride in a car pool 4 days a week. My co-worker owns a Honda CRV. I own a Vue GreenLine. My wife and I have driven both the Vue GreenLine, the Honda CRV, the 4 Cylinder Vue. She purchased a 2008 Vue XR, which she likes, as she only travels a couple of miles to work. He (my co-worker) gets 19-20 mpg commuting (real-life). I get 26-28 mpg (real-life). Our commute is the same. He lives in the next cul-de-sac. I get crammed into his CRV like a sardine. I sit comfortably in my Vue. I am 6'2" and weigh 225. His Honda CRV can only crawl up a moderately steep hill on the way to work. My Vue GreenLine holds its speed. I prefer REAL-LIFE direct comparisons. Please note I have a good opinion of the CRV as a smaller SUV. It was a much better performer than the non-hybrid Vue 4 cylinder. I will find out about the battery in a few years. The problems with the electrical harness and batteries are a legitimate concern. Of course, with less than 7000 Vue GreenLines made in 2007, it may be a rare car in 10 years. Maybe it will be worth more than an Edsel. The bottom line is hybrids, most likely plug-ins, are the future, whether you like it or not. We can't keep on sending our money out of the country to pay for oil. My opinion, based on direct conversations with other scientists working on hydrogen/fuel cells, is the technology is 20 years off, if ever. Not including a total re-work of the nations's infrastructure to make hydrogen commercially available.
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Replying to: chmsomm (Nov 08, 2008 7:59 am) Here are the inside dimensions of the 08 GL VUE and the 08 CR-V Vue Front Head Room: 40.2 in. Front Hip Room: 52.6 in. Front Shoulder Room: 56 in. Rear Head Room: 39.3 in. Rear Shoulder Room: 55.9 in. Rear Hip Room: 52.9 in. Front Leg Room: 40.7 in. Rear Leg Room: 36.9 in. Luggage Capacity: 29.2 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 56 cu. ft. Maximum Seating: 5 CR-V Front Head Room: 38.9 in. Front Hip Room: 55.9 in. Front Shoulder Room: 56.9 in. Rear Head Room: 38.5 in. Rear Shoulder Room: 56 in. Rear Hip Room: 54.6 in. Front Leg Room: 41.3 in. Rear Leg Room: 38.5 in. Luggage Capacity: 35.7 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 73 cu. ft. Maximum Seating: 5 The CR-V is larger in every dimension except head room. Possibly the reason you don't feel cramped in your Vue is because you are driving.. My next door neighbor is 6'3" and brags about the room in his wife's CR-V. Of course when he is in it, he is in the drivers seat. >"Please note I have a good opinion of the CRV as a smaller SUV." And you obviously have a good opinion of the even smaller VUE.  The Vue is a pleasant looking car and will likely give you good service. To me the exterior has more eye appeal than the CR-V does. The question at hand is how long and how many miles is the "break even point", and how will todays Hybrids fare in the future. Whether it be a Vue or any other hybrid. >His Honda CRV can only crawl up a moderately steep hill on the way to work. My Vue GreenLine holds its speed". Maybe your co-workers CR-V is an older, smaller model with a smaller engine. . I have yet to experience a hill, on the street, that our 03 4WD CR-V doesn't go up with enthusiasm. My wife averages around 21mpg and I get about 24mpg real world, local driving. Trips usually less than 7 miles one way. Fuel mileage has got a lot to do with the driver's foot. Kip
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Replying to: kipk (Nov 08, 2008 5:23 pm) Glad you like your CRV. Nice that you copied the spec's. However, that is why people look at specs, and then do actual test drives to determine their levels of personal comfort. I learned many years ago as I scientist that theory must be backed up by actual testing. The other item was the comparison of mileage, the difference of which I found to me much greater than what you listed. Driven both, riden in both, evaluated both. My wife and I have test driven the various Vue models, Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4, Chevy Equinox and the Pontiac equivalent, and the 2009 AWD Pontiac Vibe. I have also driven a a Subaru as a rental. Glad you like your CRV. I see alot of them on the road, obviously people like them, and they appear to be very reliable. If I remember correctly, CRVs are now made in the U.S. Is that correct? The plug-in hybrids that will be coming out in the next few years will decrease our dependence on foreign oil and help stem outflow of our money. Many people who have older Prius's are converting them to be more electric reliant. Remember. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country".
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Replying to: chmsomm (Nov 09, 2008 2:02 pm) Just so we are on the same page and there are no misunderstandings. I'm trying real hard to justify purchasing a hybrid from somebody. I happen to like the looks and some other virtues of the Vue. Am still considering the possibility of replacing the CR-V with a Vue. Thus I'm on Vue forums. Also considering a Hybrid. Thus I'm on this particular forum. There is nothing wrong with the CR-V. Just ready for something different. I understand there are "TROLLS" that visit forums to stir up controversy, I also understand there are those that exaggerate the truth to satisfy their own agenda and make themselves feel better about choices they have made. I am neither of those. I'm here to find the truth and make an informed decision. I'm retired and VALUE is important . When someone makes a statement as though it is "Truth" I investigate. You stated the comfort of your Vue and how you were crammed like a sardine into the CR-V. Also that the CR-V is a nice "Small" SUV. I investigated and found your statements difficult to understand. as the Vue has the smaller dimensions. As a scientist, you can certainly appreciate repeatable facts. FACTS are that the CR-V has more leg room front and back than the Vue, which should accomodate your longer legs better. It also has more hip and shoulder room which should accomodate your body size better. To back up those FACTS I copied and posted the actual specs, for your viewing pleasure. I understand the "Perception is Reality" thing, although it is not scientific. Your perception of the driving position may be better in the Vue, for you, and you may be "Riding" in an older, smaller, less powerful CR-V. But truth be known, the CR-V is larger for the occupants and has considerably more luggage/cargo space. Plenty of power to deal with any paved road, and many that aren't paved. This forum is about the Green Line Vue. For me, the question is whether or not the Hybrid is right for me and mine. You wrote, "The other item was the comparison of mileage, the difference of which I found to me much greater than what you listed." Used 22 for the CR-V although EPA says 23 I think. And used the EPA numbers for the Vue Hybrid. Those number are actually dealing with greater difference in mileage than actual drivers posted on http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ . Seems the drivers aren't getting the EPA ratings from the Vue. What numbers would you like to consider? FWIW: Based on Edmunds numbers the "Base" Green Line has a $4880 higher MSRP than the Base 4 cylinder model. Add in 6% sales tax, Financing the Green Line at MSRP, at 5% for 60 months will cost $100 more per month than financing the 4 Cylinder Vue. According to Edmunds auto calculator. Understandably, there may be some tax incentives for the Hybrid, but there may also be some Manufacturers incentives for the gasser. Let us use a probably unrealistic 10 mpg difference between the Hybrid and Gasser? At 15000 miles per year the 32 mpg hybrid will use 469 gallons of fuel. The 22mpg gasser will use 682 gallons. The Hybrid uses 213 fewer gallons. At $3 the savings are $639 yearly. At $4 the savings are $852 yearly. At $5 they are $1065 yearly. Seems wonderful until we figure back in the extra $1200 per year car note. The less we drive the less the fuel savings, but that $1200 extra car note marches right along for those 5 years. You wrote: "Remember. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"." What I did for my country was serve 8 years in the military. Work and pay taxes. Not take any hand outs or welfare from the government. . Keep my thermostat on 70 in the winter and 78 in the summer. Exceed EPA ratings on my cars. I don't like sending $700 Billion a year to terrorist countries any more than anyone else. Fact is that we don't need to, other than the congress won't allow us to fix it. There are huge amounts of oil, oil shale, natural gas, and coal under our soil and off our coast.. We need to go after them. That would create 10s of thousands of jobs and keep that $700 billion right here. ANWR oil could be flowing in the Alaska pipeline in 1 to 3 years. Oil from 3 western states possibly sooner than that. Lower the national speed limit to 65 mph and enforce it. Create "Plug In" Electric vehicles for the short distance commuters and trips to the store. They already have that for all practical purposes. Leave off the gas engine and associated hardware and add more batteries and a AC to Dc charger. Why don't the auto mfgs do that? Why doesn't congress allow the energy companies to harvest more oil and gas. Hmmmm...!  Not forgetting wind, nuclear, solar and tide energy sources. About 25% of the oil we use powers automobiles. Thanks, Kip
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