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Hybrid Vehicles Saturn VUE Green Line Hybrid Saturn VUE Green Line - Real World MPG Numbers
84 messages, Last post on Jan 12, 2009 at 2:47 PM
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Replying to: kipk (Nov 07, 2008 8:21 am) Weight..Vue= 3803 # CRV= 4560# Length...Vue= 180.1...CRV=177.9 " I think you must be referring to the Pilot. The CR-V has never weighed that much. According to the Honda website, the CR-V maximum curb weight (no passengers) is 3549 (AWD, EX-L). Minimum weight is 3389 (LX FWD). BTW, it is no wonder GM is going under. Their Saturn site is slick, but provides no usable information - no specifications at all. Dumb.
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Replying to: stevedebi (Nov 07, 2008 8:58 am)
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Replying to: dmathews3 (Nov 07, 2008 9:39 am) Did you even check the Honda website? I would think that the official Honda website has the most accurate data. Having owned a CR-V, I know they don't weigh that much - one would need a V6 to power that much weight. If you got your numbers off Edmunds, there are two possible explanations: 1. You read maximum gross weight, which includes cargo and passengers, rather than the curb weight. 2. Edmunds made a mistake on their site.
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Replying to: kipk (Nov 07, 2008 8:21 am) Correction on above sentence: According to http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ the mileage for the 17 reported 2007-2008 Vue models is 25.95. The 25 reported 2007 and 2008 CR-V average was 24.55 mpg. That is averaging the 2 years together. Don't how that the 1.5 mpg advantage of the Hybrid Vue could ever really pay for itself, other than self satisfaction. Even a 5 mpg advantage for "average driving" would take years and many miles to pay back the higher initial cost. Kip
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Replying to: kipk (Nov 07, 2008 10:12 am) Some of it would depend upon the duty cycle. If a person drove each vehicle in the same fuel-efficient conservative fashion, the hybrid might pay for itself after a few years of primarily Urban cycle, where the hybrid technology shines. If many of the miles are on the freeway at highway speeds, there isn't as much advantage to the hybrid. I think that a CR-V would get around 22-23 in town, wherease a hybrid Vue should get around 28-31, possibly more depending upon how hard the driver "works" to maximize the hybrid technology. Obviously it also depends on the price of gas, which is currently low. But try the comparison at $5 per gallon and see what happens...
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Replying to: stevedebi (Nov 07, 2008 9:46 am) Re checked and I did pick up the gross weight. Vehicle weight is 3389 for the CR-V Base model. Therefore the Vue Hybrid is heavier, which would account for weight of the batteries and electric drive system. The extra length of the Vue is most likely in front of the windshield to accomodate the V6. Point remains that the CR-V is not to be considered a small SUV. Thanks, Kip |
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Replying to: stevedebi (Nov 07, 2008 10:29 am) Figured financing the extra initial cost over a 6 year period and going 16,666 miles yearly. So the car would be payed off at 100K miles. Seems we used 45 mpg for the Hybrid and 35 for the Gas. It took the better part of the 100K miles and the 6 years to hit a break even point. Putting aside the reported figures and using your above 22 mpg for the gas engined car and 28 for the Hybrid, the gasser would use 146 more gallons of fuel over a 15000 mile drive. About 1 year for the average driver. At $3 the hybrid would save $438 fuel cost. At $4 it would save $584. At $5 it would save $730. With no interest involved at all the: $3 gas would take 9.1 years and 136,000 miles to reach a break even point and start really saving any money. At $4 it would take 6.8 years and 102,739 miles. The $5 gas would take 5.5 years and 82,191 miles to do the same. If you consider the extra interest for the $4000, the times and mileages would be longer and higher. We don't actually know how long the batteries will last, cost of replacements, or any extra expense on the electric drive and regenerating components. A person feeling they are doing the right thing by being more "Green" is admirable and priceless. A person feeling they are saving a lot of money is not looking at the total cost.  Kip
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Replying to: kipk (Nov 07, 2008 11:53 am)
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Replying to: dmathews3 (Nov 07, 2008 1:01 pm) To make an intelligent buying decision, we need to know the warranty on the batteries and associated "Electric Drive" components. We need to know the replacement cost, including labor. What warranty does the Vue have on these items. How about the "starter" for the gas engine that will be used a lot for every trip! My concern is that the battery pack may need replacing around 100K miles and the price will be in the $3000-$5000 range, depending on car make and model. Therefore, just about the time the Vue hybrid is beginning to reach the "break even point" there is another $3K-$5K EXPENSE that has to be over ridden. So the owner is right back where he or she started, more or less and will never actually save any money unless gas prices exceed $6 per gallon. (Which could happen). Except that now the car has 100K on the clock and may not be worth much more than the price of the battery pack. So does it become a throw away car? Or does the fact that it is a Hybrid enhance it's resale value to a point that battery replacement is worthwhile. To attempt trading in the car before the batteries crash would surely have an effect on the value of the trade. For example, a 5-6 year old gasser with 80K miles, might be worth, say $4-$5K. A hybrid in same condition is getting close to battery replacement time and the dealer MUST take that into consideration. What is GM doing to make that a non issue? Battery technology has improved greatly over the past few years. How will that affect an 08-09 Vue, in 5 years? Will the same charging and regenerating systems of an 09 car be able to deal with newer battery types in the future? Will battery prices decrease dramatically like the prices of flat/thin TV sets? Or will today's Hybrids be obsolete  Thanks, Kip |
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Please note I ride in a car pool 4 days a week. My co-worker owns a Honda CRV. I own a Vue GreenLine. My wife and I have driven both the Vue GreenLine, the Honda CRV, the 4 Cylinder Vue. She purchased a 2008 Vue XR, which she likes, as she only travels a couple of miles to work. He (my co-worker) gets 19-20 mpg commuting (real-life). I get 26-28 mpg (real-life). Our commute is the same. He lives in the next cul-de-sac. I get crammed into his CRV like a sardine. I sit comfortably in my Vue. I am 6'2" and weigh 225. His Honda CRV can only crawl up a moderately steep hill on the way to work. My Vue GreenLine holds its speed. I prefer REAL-LIFE direct comparisons. Please note I have a good opinion of the CRV as a smaller SUV. It was a much better performer than the non-hybrid Vue 4 cylinder. I will find out about the battery in a few years. The problems with the electrical harness and batteries are a legitimate concern. Of course, with less than 7000 Vue GreenLines made in 2007, it may be a rare car in 10 years. Maybe it will be worth more than an Edsel. The bottom line is hybrids, most likely plug-ins, are the future, whether you like it or not. We can't keep on sending our money out of the country to pay for oil. My opinion, based on direct conversations with other scientists working on hydrogen/fuel cells, is the technology is 20 years off, if ever. Not including a total re-work of the nations's infrastructure to make hydrogen commercially available.
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