Last post on Nov 22, 2012 at 3:00 AM
You are in the Mitsubishi Montero
What is this discussion about?
Mitsubishi Montero, SUV
Dec 30, 2002 (11:49 am)
I will get the article but they said something like the 4runner came to an imediate bog with the system on and they had to turn it off. The same thing happened in a Sequoia test going through a sandy river crossing where it bogged down. I dont rememeber if the reviewer got stuck but he was the one who wanted it "cut" with wire clippers by the end of the test.
The system shutting off with braking came from the Sequoia
site I believe.
Hey, bottom line, you have the Toyota and you are happy with it. I am
happy you are happy but you can bet that the best systems will be manual or mechanically triggered and/or have swithes to lock the front, center and rear diff or have modifications like the Hummer that can alter the electronics so that wheel spin is allowed in order to seach for the most traction and not brake the wheels or slow the engine in sandy, muddy or deep snow conditions.
I think Volvo and MB have already gone that way. The New Montero
may have as well as it didnt bog down in the test running up the sand dune and you can bet a quality company like Toyota wont be far behind.
Question: Can you lock the center diff in the new LC/Sequoia/4 runner in 4wd Hi range or just low range?
Here is the review from Australia, remeber the 2000 Pajero is the same as the 2001 Montero.
November 2000: The motoring clubs - NRMA, RACV, RAASA, RACQ, RACT, AANT and RACWA - have made their choices in the Australia's Best Cars Awards. Mitsubishi's new Pajero GLS is the best 4WD, and the Nimbus is the best people mover. "On the road, the Pajero delivers class-leading ride, handling and steering, and braking, attracting consistently good scores. In this respect it makes the LandCruiser feel like a truck."
Dec 30, 2002 (12:00 pm)
Why do you think Car/Driver said that the H2 is not as good off road as the H1 then?
Dec 30, 2002 (12:04 pm)
I have sited what other reviews have stated in articles, as you have (even cut ant pasted them in some cases). I have stated what other Toyota users have reported, as you have (again cut/pasted from the source). I have sited objective data that can be verified, as you have so what is with the passionate statement that my comments are "unsubstantiated". I have even stated negative things about the Montero, as you have but I have yet to hear from you about any negative things about Toyota. I find this interesting.
Dec 30, 2002 (12:30 pm)
Ok, if the VSC prevented the 4Runner from going up the hill, then shut if off! Yes, you can LOCK the center diff in HI or LO range. And guess what?, when FourWheeler lock the center diff (turning off VSC), the 4runner made it up the hill. Pretty simple solution.
Maybe, the Montero automatically shuts off it's skid control when you go into 4-HI (which locks the center diff, right?)...the 4Runner just has more options (4-HI or LO with and without center diff lock).
So, because i don't see any glaring negatives about the 4Runner. Oh yeah, the ride is somewhat bouncy. Are you happy, now? Yeah, the interior is also tight. That's about it. Almost forgot, i wish it had real wood.
But, in terms of off-roading, it has no faults. And that is what we're mainly talking about.
Hey, i thought you just criticized the 4Runner for allowing TOO much wheelspin...i am confused at your statements! Please clarify.
OK, what has Volvo done again??
November 2000...yeah, OK...Montero is the best. Sorry i ever doubted you.
Again, SIMPLY lock the center diff when off-roading (which you SHOULD anyway), and the 4Runner will run with the best of them!
Did you notice the 3rd gen 4Runner's IMPRESSIVE approach/departure/breakover angles??? How about that 27" water fording! How about that 42 degree incline and 41 degree side slope! Remember, the 4runner is body-on-frame (not low-to-ground unibody)...thus, these numbers are quite impressive.
I am glad that you're happy with the Montero. But, please no need to spam about Toyota SUV when the one you have is FAR from perfect...even farther when off-roading.
And from reading your response, either you're blind and therefore unable to read my response...OR you're extremely biased??
#2016 of 2830 Explain to me this:
Dec 30, 2002 (12:36 pm)
A repeat of above...can you comment on this??
How do we even know that Toyota's VSC system shuts off when braking?? Are there any official information on this??
Even IF it does, why is it bad?? All Toyota SUVs now have Electronic BrakeForce Distribution (EBD), which gives the most braking power to the wheel with the most traction...which is ALL that matters when braking into a corner!!!!! Mitsu has this system too.
Why is VSC off in a corner when braking bad?? Expecially when a vehicle has EBD???
#2017 of 2830 Brill.. driveline
Dec 30, 2002 (2:33 pm)
I had the dealer replaced my driveline at 28000mi as it was out of balance. I've been to 3 different tire place to have my tire balanced as the dealer keeps on blaming my tires. I was able to convince my dealer to swap a set of new Montero tires to rulle out the tires and the vibration is still there. Does the vibration feels like the whole truck shakes and not just the steering wheel? Mine feels like it has a seat massager underneat each seat. The dealer didn't know all about the driveline problem until I brought the copy of a TSB given to me by a Mitsu mechanic. Let me know if you want a copy of the TSB and I can email it to you.
Dec 30, 2002 (2:57 pm)
Thanks, can you email it to me. I think the mechanics just dont do a good job at looking out after the customer. At a time when people are taking pot shots at Mitsubishi for no apparent reason it seems that the dealerships would step up on the customer focus end.
I will take it to him but he claims he cant feel it. I can so where the hell to I go from here. I considered speaking with the manager above him but really dont want to piss him off if he really feels that he cant detect it.
Dec 30, 2002 (3:04 pm)
I am getting too old for this, you win. One last comment.
The H2 Hummer has an electronically controlled system similar to the Toyota but much more controllable (as does the expensive and ugly, IMO, larger MB). What they found was that on sand, mud, deep slippery stuff that the system would break the wheels at a time where continued wheel spin was better. As such they have a switch that you hit to allow for wheel spin, over riding the electronic system to some degree, or at least this is what I think it does per the H2 link I posted above.
This is dead on consistent with what I have been saying (and other more knowledgable 4wd reviewers have been saying) about the weakness of the current Toyota system. On sand or other deep slippery stuff you have no way to do this. As such the 4 Runner "imediately bogged" tring to climb the sand hill and the Sequoia lost so much monentum that the reviewer felt like or did get stuck crossing a sandy dry river.
It makes sense if you think about it. I would rather have as many wheels positively engaged, not braking and the motor full bore in loose conditions such as these. Anything less and you loose momentum, sink in deeper and get stuck.
#2020 of 2830 VSC off during breaking
Dec 30, 2002 (3:10 pm)
Now remember here, I read this from a current owner who may be wrong so you should confirm but if true this is why it is bad and why Mitsubishi and I believe Volvo and MB dont do this.
VSC is essentially Yaw control. If you are going around a corner on ice and start slipping chances are no VSC system will save you anyway but......
if you panic and hit the brakes to try to slow down and the system shuts off then it cant do anything to help correct your skid. If you keep your foot off the brakes then you have no chance of slowing (before impact) and have to hope that the VSC will pull you out of a crash.
Even if it could, how many people will not hit the brakes? How long has it taken to even get some people driving the anti lock brakes correctly and not pump them?
Personally, I think that I would teach my wife and kid to drive on ice the old fashion way. I have had much too much experience on that stuff and I dont think anything really helps other than good tires, chains and proper driving. Usually someone is going too fast and anti lock brakes, VSC, nothing is going to stop the vehicle from sliding into a car or off the road.
#2021 of 2830 Montero vs. 4Runner
Dec 30, 2002 (4:34 pm)
Good evening all! Anyone in here who owns a '03 Montero also consider purchasing a '03 4Runner? If so, what swayed you to purchase the Montero? They are roughly the same price (at least within $800 or so)and both have benefits (styling vs. resale, etc.) Any comments would be appreciated.