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BMW Performance Driving School for the X

29 messages,  Last post on Oct 11, 2006 at 10:46 AM

You are in the BMW X3 & X5 Forum.

What is this discussion about? BMW X3, BMW X5, Performance Mods, SUV

Messages Page 3 of 3

#20 of 29 Re: 3 vs 3 [jrynn] by bodble2

Oct 09, 2006 (10:32 am)

Replying to: jrynn (Oct 09, 2006 10:21 am)
You're forgiven! I was thinking the same thing. We've know for some time mark is a touch smitten by his X3. And it ain't no puppy love!

#21 of 29 Re: 3 vs 3 [jrynn] by markcincinnati

Oct 09, 2006 (1:07 pm)

Replying to: jrynn (Oct 09, 2006 10:21 am)
The phrase "when driven by the BMW instructors" is key.
 
At the M5 and "advanced" BMW schools, there are, frequently, participants who have taken many many driving schools and who -- some of them -- are weekend track stars, to boot.
 
Part of the experience at the school includes timed track runs with all cars on the track at once.
 
The instructors, driving X's, will literally run rings around even the most experienced folks who are behind the wheel of an M5.
 
Both the X3 and the X5 outperform the M5 when the X's are driven by the instructors and the M's are driven by the students.
 
This was a point being made, NOT so much by the instructors, but by the "advanced" students themselves who, over lunch at the BMW cafe, were remarking to those of us in the "X" class that being lapped by an X (when you are driving an M5) is a humbling experience.
 
We, mere mortals, are, generally unable to tap the potential of even the highest performance cars.
 
That is why the instructors said that a 530xi (when driven by a mere mortal) offers an unfair advantage over a 530i.
 
I do not think, per se, that the instructor was suggesting that "FOR THEM" a heavier AWD vehicle would be their first choice. They were saying that for "us," we would be able to produce "faster, higher, safer, better, improved, and more controlled" laps around the course with the 530xi than with the 530i because the 530xi takes "less skill." Of course they are sooo smooth that they don't resort to pointing out our obvious lack of high performance driving skills. Somehow they get the message across without telling us we are but "mere [driving] mortals."
 
Any port in the storm.
 
I'm sorry if you thought I claimed the X3 or X5 is able to perform better than an M5 under all conditions.
 
The point was and remains, that were WE to become better drivers (as good as the instructors, that is), we could make the SAV outperform the M -- were the M driven by "mere mortals."

#22 of 29 Pros v. amateurs by jrynn

Oct 09, 2006 (2:44 pm)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Oct 09, 2006 1:07 pm)
So, if I understand you correctly now, you are saying.
 
"A fulltime professional driver in an X3 can go faster than an amateur driver in an M5."
 
*Yawn*

#23 of 29 Re: Pros v. amateurs [jrynn] by markcincinnati

Oct 09, 2006 (4:54 pm)

Replying to: jrynn (Oct 09, 2006 2:44 pm)
Well, I thought I said that the first time; and, although I suspect the "amateurs" would bristle at that characterization, considering the investment in driving schools that they have made, you are essentially correct.
 
The point remains, ability/skill trumps technology in this case.
 
Moreover, another point is that technology -- at least with respect to the X vs non-X comments made by the instructor -- can make up for amateur's deficiencies.
 
I am an amateur -- as I suspect most of us posters here are. So I will now consider the merits of a "modern" automatic transmission in a weight balanced AWD sports sedan.
 
At this stage, it is highly unlikely that I will become a pro driver.
 
I'll take all the advantages I can afford.
 
Right now a 335xi (and I might consider one with a stick, if it is still offered) seems to be about the best of all worlds.
 
Now, however, with a magic wand, an X3 with the same "35" engine and Audi's DSG transmission might be nirvana.

#24 of 29 Re: Pros v. amateurs [markcincinnati] by div2

Oct 09, 2006 (5:19 pm)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Oct 09, 2006 4:54 pm)
...although I suspect the "amateurs" would bristle at that characterization, considering the investment in driving schools that they have made...
 
So your opinion of "amateur" driving schools is based on attending one "professional" school?
 
If I couldn't catch a "professionally driven" X3 with an E46 330i ZHP I'd hang up my helmet and driving gloves.

#25 of 29 Re: Pros v. amateurs [div2] by markcincinnati

Oct 10, 2006 (8:03 am)

Replying to: div2 (Oct 09, 2006 5:19 pm)
This was my fifth. I didn't say the driving school was amateur, I assumed you were suggesting that the folks in the "advanced" M classes (most of them their on top of multiple previous attendance) were amateurs.
 
The BMW and the Audi schools -- the two sponsors of the schools I have attended -- are professional schools. The folks in the "Advanced BMW -- 'M' schools" seem to be in training to become "pro-am" drivers.
 
I am not.
 
The focus of all the driving schools I have attended (each being 2 days) has been similar: get the car into an "out of control" situation and apply instruction and exercise in order to regain control, followed by continuing the exercises over and over at higher and higher speeds until once again, the threshold is crossed and once again control is lost. Then, during the out of control portion of the instruction, you learn how to counteract the out of control attitude of the vehicle and bring it back into control.
 
The "rinse lather repeat" school of high performance driving where the focus is on maintaining control or regaining control is what I have attended 4 times in Austria and once in South Carolina.
 
The "Advanced M high performance school" seems to have, as its primary focus, driving on a closed track in competition.
 
I have been through some of the same things as part of the on-road instruction I mentioned above -- I have NOT been on the path that trains students to either race in amateur road races or to become pro drivers.
 
The BMW Advanced M students were, IMHO, far from amateurs was a key point in my post.
 
Another point is that the technology MAY (it CAN) make a fair driver into a pretty good driver and so on.
 
Not being the pro, personally, I simply say I'll take all the technology advantages I can get.
 
Finally, were we as individuals to spend the money on training that we spend to "move our cars up the performance continuum," we would be able to "do more, go faster, be safer, etc." with lesser technology.
 
It makes me think my lowly Audi A6 3.2 could keep up with an Audi S6 V10 were I to spend $25,000 on training myself rather than on the upcharge reflected in the MSRP of these two vehicles.
 
Yet, were I to want to spend the extra $25K, I imagine I would spend it on the S6 instead of more training.
 
Perhaps YOU are already a professional driver, but the things our instructors could do with X3's and X5's typically would mean that the X's would be showing the M's their tail lights. Of course the straightaways did allow the M's to catch up with the X's.
 
In conclusion, the new X3 with the new 3.0 engine, tho. . . well driving that will give all but the most jaundiced pause -- the new 2007 X3 3.0 is (relatively) a screamer.
 
 

#26 of 29 Re: Pros v. amateurs [markcincinnati] by div2

Oct 10, 2006 (8:40 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Oct 10, 2006 8:03 am)
It makes me think my lowly Audi A6 3.2 could keep up with an Audi S6 V10 were I to spend $25,000 on training myself rather than on the upcharge reflected in the MSRP of these two vehicles.
  
Yet, were I to want to spend the extra $25K, I imagine I would spend it on the S6 instead of more training
 
I think you should try a few BMW CCA driving schools. I suspect that you will find that you can develop good driving skills for considerably less than $25K. You may even learn to enjoy nudging the envelope without having a host of Bavarian acronyms waiting to intervene to "save" you from disaster...

#27 of 29 Re: Pros v. amateurs [div2] by markcincinnati

Oct 10, 2006 (9:03 am)

Replying to: div2 (Oct 10, 2006 8:40 am)
Next trip, back to SC, more of a vacation with a little learning kind of thing.
 
I didn't mean I would actually spend $25K on the training, I simply meant that were most people to spend some money and time on education and training they would almost certainly get more out of their current car.
 
I have no intention of feeding a V10 car either.
 
I'm more looking at either an Audi or BMW TD "if" they ever come to this side of the Atlantic.
 
Thanks for the tip.

#28 of 29 Re: Pros v. amateurs [markcincinnati] by bargamon

Oct 11, 2006 (10:46 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Oct 10, 2006 9:03 am)
They are busting your chops!

Messages Page 3 of 3

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