Last post on Sep 10, 2008 at 3:00 PM
You are in the Subaru Forester
What is this discussion about?
Subaru Forester, Future Vehicle, Wagon
#49 of 148 Frustrating things about that Sports XT
Dec 26, 2006 (5:53 pm)
Subaru does things that seem absolutely bizarre to me and it might cost them another sale (to me). They come out with a "Sports XT", adding VDC (finally...and a wonderful safety feature) and then they go and (1) delete foglights and replace the front bumper with something that looks silly (2) delete the heated windshield and mirrors (3) make roof crossbars optional and (4) limit the choices to 3 colors, none of which is my favorite. Forgetting about the colors and crossbars, they basically added one nice safety feature and removed two others. What kind of thinking is that? Why not just simply offer the VDC as an option on the XT Limited and add that ridiculous blue and make the anthracite cloth seats optional (the cloth works fine on my 2004 XT, which I prefer to leather). I heard they took away the heated seats on the Sports XT, but I can't confirm that - not that it matters, it makes me just want to keep my 2004 XT longer, since they've made some pretty stupid decisions since. The Outback is pretty nice, but this is a Forester discussion...
#50 of 148 Fog Lights
Dec 26, 2006 (6:12 pm)
Are never a selling point nor should they be as OEM Fog lights are useless!
As for the heated windshield? It's pretty expensive. I think they were trying to keep the price down yet add the expensive VDC to the equation.
#51 of 148 Re: Fog Lights [paisan]
Dec 26, 2006 (10:14 pm)
I'm on my third Forester since 1999 and I hope we can agree to disagree, then! I'd like to find a reason to buy something I like more than my 2004 XT with 100K miles, but the Sports XT isn't it.
#52 of 148 I hear yah
Dec 26, 2006 (10:50 pm)
I have been on SOA's case about a bigger sedan for years or a coupe ala SVX. I've had to look elsewhere for my towing needs as well. Heck my only Subaru left is my race car!
#53 of 148 Re: Fog Lights [dt63944]
Dec 27, 2006 (5:00 am)
>>Are never a selling point nor should they be as OEM Fog lights are useless!<< Try them on a dark country road some night and see how much further to the left and right you can see, as in critters deciding it is a good time to jump in front of you... And I would rather have a deer or other varmint in the headlights to one side of me than in front... Not a total solution, but it helps... and they do help in fog... And I didn't like the new small ones (looks) on the 06's forward, but they are better than the older ones...
Dec 27, 2006 (5:56 am)
My point was that OEM fogs compared to REAL fogs are pretty much useless, so it shouldn't be a deciding factor in buying a car. For $200 or less you can get a set of REAL GOOD fogs on your car and you'll realize that OEM fogs are really not a priority.
On my vehicles (which I drive up in the Mts upstate NY with lots of critters) I always install good driving lights appropriate for each vehcile.
#55 of 148 Re: I hear yah [paisan]
Dec 27, 2006 (7:03 am)
That SVX was some car. It came along before I was in a position to buy one. That "all glass" look probably won't ever be seen again.
#56 of 148 Re: Kavoom [paisan]
Dec 27, 2006 (7:10 am)
I often think of those two lights under the headlights as "ditch lights" instead of fog lights, since they don't add much, but they do help a little and as you know, the ones that really do punch through the fog are probably not street-legal (even though a police officer would probably never ticket someone if that was the sole reason for a stop unless the lights were one step short of an arc-welder in intensity). I was so happy to see that Subaru finally put VDC in a Forester and then so frustrated to see what they cut in order to keep that price in some range. I would rather pay an extra $2000 and get an XT Limited with VDC and then maybe a $500 cut for ordering heated cloth seats instead of heated leather seats. That would be my perfect car, but Subaru, for some reason, does not allow much customization of its vehicles.
#57 of 148 Fog Lights and other Deletions
Dec 27, 2006 (10:50 am)
I was also rather surprised at first that some features were removed and some added in a rather odd fashion. The fog lights on my old '98 are useful for lighting up the roadsides and tricky corners (they would make fair cornering lights if hooked up to the turn signals). But the low beam headlights, with the sharp upper beam cutoff, actually are pretty good in fog by themselves.
The big problem with OEM fog lights is that they do NOT have a sharp upper OR lower beam cutoff. Therefore, they annoy oncoming drivers when they are used in anything other than fog conditions. Unfortunately, very many owners of vehicles with fogs leave them on all of the time. The result is that the upper cone of light is directly in the path of oncoming traffic and the lower portion reflects off rain or snow covered road surfaces and also tends to blind the oncoming driver.
I came to buy a Subaru Forester after owning 4 Saabs. The GMization of Saab resulted in some illogical decisions and a loss of quality and so I was pushed to find something better.
The reason I bought Saabs in the first place was that they were very practical and sturdy vehicles that were well suited to my driving environment. They were not sporty (except for the SPG) and had somewhat less than average power. But the total package was great including seat heaters, high quality cloth upholstery and a total package that made sense. My original Forester was the same (with the addition of the then optional Winter Driving Package).
Unfortunately, marketers tend to dream of upscale buyers whose purchasing decisions are relatively recession-proof and so they package the product to appeal to that segment. That is what happened to Saab and that seems to be what is happening to Subaru. So, when you price the package that makes the most sense as a premium item, you have to remove some of the sensible things in order for those buying at the high end to avoid feeling that they are paying too much for their package. Thus, those of us who do not want certain high end features end up having to sacrifice some of the practical items as well to get a lower price.
#58 of 148 All Good Points
Dec 27, 2006 (12:55 pm)
For me, when looking at a new vehicle, generally I look for features that I can't easily add/replace with aftermarket items as "must haves".
For instance on my Armada, I bought the LE model but without the moonroof and navigation. Those 2 options saved me close to 6000 off the sticker price. I felt that if I really wanted a roof, I could add one in the aftermarket for around $1000-1500 later on. As for the navigation, I added my carputer for around $1000, and could have added an in-dash until from crutchfield for around $1000-1500 if I really wanted to.
The reasons for going for the LE over the SE for me were the puddle lights (not easily added aftermarket), interior lights, towing package (impossible to add aftermarket), and leather (not cheaply added aftermarket) with only a slight increase in price of the LE over the SE model.
The same would go for me on the Forester in terms of the VDC, that is not something you can add later on in any size/shape or form, so I see that as a good thing. Things like leather/heated seats, moonroofs, and especially fog/driving lights can always be upgraded later on in my opinion.