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#1 of 120 Buying used cars from out of state
Oct 22, 2006 (11:43 pm)
So you've found that great car but it's across state lines. How do you get it home? Need a temporary license? Will your current insurance cover the drive home? Discuss these issues here!
#2 of 120 Just bought a car on ebay
Nov 15, 2006 (9:31 pm)
This guy had a car up for auction on ebay with an option to make him an offer. I made him an offer of 15k "out of the door" including delivery from missouri to arizona.
He then demanded the entire 15k!
I'm under the impression that I am liable to pay the sales tax in Arizona... so I told him I will calculate the total amount less sales tax, title, license, doc fees, etc -- in other words: "15k out of the door" and pay him that amount.
He said that tax isn't his problem and that he wants 15k. That the term "out of the door" doesn't account for any taxes I will have to pay?!
He also claims that I am legally bound to the contract offer and have to pay him 15k for the car?
Is this correct? I made the online counter offer to his ebay listing with the explicit term of 15k "out of the door." Am I nuts or isn't that understood to mean total cost of transferring ownership (including tax, title, license, etc.)??
Any help would be appreciated.
#3 of 120 Re: Just bought a car on ebay [sativo]
Nov 15, 2006 (9:46 pm)
You'll need to read the fine print at ebay.com for "gotchas" but what you did appears more like a "proposal" than an offer and a proposal is not an agreement.
#4 of 120 Re: Just bought a car on ebay [tidester]
Jun 27, 2008 (4:16 pm)
Except that with E-bay, once you agree to a deal, it's like signing on the dotted line. I have never had a problem with E-bay and I have done several transactions, but never one as big as a vehicle. I also have never had to back out of a sale except once and that was a pretty amicable process so I haven't had any "bad exeriences" with me not willing to pay, or some one not willing to pay me.
If I remember the rules and regulations you agree to when you sign up with E-bay, an accepted bid is a promise to pay. However, I am not sure how "binding" it is. I don't know that you can be pursued in court for not honoring a winning bid, especially in a situation like this, where two parties have interpreted an "OTD" offer differently.
So, in short was the bid accepted? Yes, it sounds like it was. The buyer is obligated to pay the seller the 15K. He agreed to it and it is supposeidly (sp?) a legal binding agreement (Read the fine print in E-bay's rules and regulations to be sure). The hard part comes trying to come to an understanding of the OTD price. The seller apparently thought that OTD didn't inlcude tax, title licensem, which in AZ could be pretty exorbiant, depending on the original MSRP and the value of the car now. Title and registration is based off of that, taxes are based just off the sales price. If you do not live in AZ than you do not have to pay AZ sales tax, but you may have to pay sales tax when you register the car in your home state. If the car is being shipped directly to Missouri, than there is no need for a temp tag either. Just a signature on the title (preferably notorized, just in case. Probably not required, but I would do it just in case).
What is comes down to is being able to arbitrate between the two parties on what was understood when the "OTD" offer was given. E-bay can help with this, but I would try to work with the seller first and hope that he would be understanding.
#5 of 120 Re: Just bought a car on ebay [tidester]
Nov 15, 2006 (10:29 pm)
What's the difference between a proposal and an offer?
As I understand it, his post on ebay was an invitation to make an offer (as is most any auction). With the "make offer" option that let me propose an offer amount, I made a "counter offer." Once that counter offer is made, I become the offerer and he becomes the offeree and can choose to accept or reject my offer.
He chose to accept it.
So as far as requirements for making an offer go, I think that is a non-issue.
What's at issue here is the interpretation of the terms "out of the door." In my views, when a buyer buys a car "out of the door" the seller is given a final price that covers all other expenses involved in transfer of ownership (including tax, etc.).
But I'm not sure if my understanding of "out of the door" is legally accurate.
Anyone care to weigh in on this issue?
#6 of 120 Re: Just bought a car on ebay [thebigal]
Jun 27, 2008 (4:16 pm)
oops.. I misread. It's Missouri to AZ, so reverse the thinking on the tax and title issue. Check with the DMV. I don't remember paying sales tax on the vehicles I registered in AZ when we moved. But then again we already owned them and we were just transferring registrations from OR to AZ. You may not have to pay sales tax at all? You will have to pay registration though. That could be a bunch depending on what kind of car it is.
Althoug no matter what it still comes down to arbitrating between you and the seller and hopefully coming to an agreement. Good Luck
#7 of 120 Re: Just bought a car on ebay [sativo]
Jun 27, 2008 (4:16 pm)
okay - one more comment and then I'll shut up ....
I just did a quick search and while I couldn't find a "legal" meaning of "OTD", every place I found the term "Out the Door" used, it was used in the context to mean everything, including tax title license. Basically Out the Door means, that's all I pay. I didn't find anywhere to say "OTD", plus tax title license.
#8 of 120 Re: Just bought a car on ebay [thebigal]
Nov 15, 2006 (10:42 pm)
FYI: The seller seemed fairly uncooperative. The guy's first email to me was on the order of "send the deposit or I'll leave negative feedback."
When I responded to his email, he sent me his number and we ended up on the phone. I explained that "out of the door" is conventional language that means I pay one total price that covers all expenses. And let's be serious here.. he's a dealer, he knows what I meant. But he made a play for how Missouri is different than AZ, etc. Toward the end of the conversation I just said, "look, I think you misunderstood. Let's just chalk it up to a learning experience and go our separate ways. No harm done." To my surprise, he threatened to sue if I don't pay him 15k for the car?!
We'll see what happens... but it sure would be nice to hear from anyone else who had the OTD terms go strange on them like this.
#9 of 120 Re: Just bought a car on ebay [sativo]
Nov 15, 2006 (10:53 pm)
Again, he has nothing to sue you for, because he hasn't suffered any damages, aside perhaps for any fees owed to Ebay. No damages = no case.
#10 of 120 Re: Just bought a car on ebay [pch101]
Nov 15, 2006 (11:01 pm)
That's true. So you think no one is on the hook for anything? Isn't this a unilateral contract?