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GM General Model View, Market Share & Profit News - READ ONLY

2415 messages,  Last post on Feb 12, 2007 at 4:41 AM

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#1246 of 2415
Re: to be fair [louiswei] by 1487
Jan 19, 2007 (6:31 am)

Replying to: louiswei (Jan 19, 2007 6:24 am)

Most cars of 10 years ago had hard dash materials. My car has a soft dash (alero) as did the Intrigue and its platform mates. The only places with hard materials are areas that your hands and elbows dont touch which is the door panels and trim near the floor. My car has more soft materials inside than the 3 and I would know since I have riden in that car many times. The owner agrees with this assessment, BTW. This idea that domestic cars dont have any soft materials is bogus but either way it's not a big deal to me. This is not the defining feature of any vehicle to me and no one has yet explained to me what is gained by having soft plastics. The sheen of the material is probably more important in terms of perceived quality than anything else.
 
BTW, the "soft plastics" in 90s Camrys and accords would definitely not cut it today. Hondas especially had plenty of hard surfaces inside before recent models.
#1247 of 2415
Re: to be fair [1487] by louiswei
Jan 19, 2007 (6:35 am)

Replying to: 1487 (Jan 19, 2007 6:11 am)

GS400h that got 20mpg in C&Ds test a few months back. The GS300 can match that mileage for thousands less.
 
Yeah but what does comparable V8s like BMW 5-series, MB E-class and Caddy STS get? The whole selling point for the GS400h is to get V8 power with V6 FE. To me I think that's a job well done for Lexus.
#1248 of 2415
Re: to be fair [1487] by louiswei
Jan 19, 2007 (6:39 am)

Replying to: 1487 (Jan 19, 2007 6:31 am)

BTW, the "soft plastics" in 90s Camrys and accords would definitely not cut it today. Hondas especially had plenty of hard surfaces inside before recent models.
 
WRONG.
 
I am actually pretty disappointed at Honda Accord after the 97' MY. Honda IMO took a step back by managed to utilize more hard plastic in the 98' Accord then its predecessor.
#1249 of 2415
Re: . [1487] by louiswei
Jan 19, 2007 (6:47 am)

Replying to: 1487 (Jan 19, 2007 6:25 am)

It is true that they dont care about the domestic auto industry and have no interest in them recovering from their current situation.
 
What's the auto mag's job? Is it to care about the domestic auto industry or report like the way it is?
 
If the editors think the domestic entries are inferior to the imports what do you want him/her to do? Lie just because we should support domestic auto industry? If the domestics are truly on par with the imports or even exceed it why would any American with a common sense not want to support it?
 
I just don't get it with all this media conspiracy theory. Before you point a figer at someone remember that there are 3 pointing at YOU.
#1250 of 2415
Re: . [1487] by imidazol97
Jan 19, 2007 (7:17 am)

Replying to: 1487 (Jan 19, 2007 6:25 am)

> It's just like CR and their reliabilty reports. If CR were ever to show that there isnt a large degree of reliability between cars people wouldnt buy their auto issues anymore. It is in CR's best interest to keep brining us bad news about the reliability of domestic cars because that ensures that people will keep reading each year. CR ranks cars in reliability and shows a bunch of graphs,
 
CR just had to "withdraw" their babyseat evaluation. Seems they made drastic mistakes. Hmmmmmm.
#1251 of 2415
Saturn Aura & CD comparison test by lokki
Jan 19, 2007 (7:41 am)

Replying to: louiswei (Jan 19, 2007 6:47 am)

The problem with conspiracies is that they are just so darn hard to keep organized.
 
CD just did a comparison test, and I guess they're in on the conspiracy too. They didn't like the Aura's interior.
 
However, I guess they forgot to get the memo on "Toyota Love" as the Aura placed better than the 2007 Camry, and CD complained bitterly about the poor quality of the
Camry interior.
 
It seems that article isn't online yet, but they did have a Aura review back in Oct 06. Here's what they said:
 
Once inside, we noticed our enthusiasm fade. It's not a bad interior, in fact compared with previous Saturn models the Aura benefits from nicer materials and better fit and finish, bar none. But it still doesn't stand up against the best interiors in the class, like the Toyota Camry*, Honda Accord, and Kia Optima.
 
Aura XE Review
 
*Note that this was before the comparo where they panned the 2007 Camry. By the way the KIA Optima finished higher than either the Camry or the Aura.
#1252 of 2415
Re: Saturn Aura & CD comparison test [lokki] by 1487
Jan 19, 2007 (9:03 am)

Replying to: lokki (Jan 19, 2007 7:41 am)

You tell us if there is a conspiracy. C&D is supposedly a magazine for people who like to drive but they rate the Aura low because of it's plastic hardness even though it handled better, went faster and stopped shorter than the Accord. They also liked it's styling better. You tell me how a car that has tons of positives and one negative finishes in 4th place. I dont dispute that there are some hard plastics in the Aura, I saw them. However, that is not enough to overshadow it's value, space, styling and performance. Check the scoring in that test, C&D basically pushed the Aura into 4th place by giving it low scors in "gotta have" and "fun to drive" categories. Keep in mind they actually praised the handling in the article. The Aura was in 2nd place if you removed those last two subjective categories. You explain to me how the Accord gets one of the highest "gotta have" scores when they acknowledged it's styling was dull inside and out and it didnt win any performance categories.
 
BTW, since you are a firm believer in auto mag results I would like to note the CTS beat the 530, E320, S80 and A6 in a comparison in R&T magazine. Does that mean that the CTS is absolutely superior to those cars in your mind? I doubt it. At least R&T thoroughly explains their test results and doesnt give away 1st place to the car with the softest plastics.
 
The Optima has a nice interior. It's bland but I would get it long before I let Honda or Toyota take my money.
#1253 of 2415
Re: to be fair [louiswei] by 1487
Jan 19, 2007 (9:06 am)

Replying to: louiswei (Jan 19, 2007 6:35 am)

The V8s in the test got 16-17 mpg during the test. Obviously that is worse but the GS300 nearly matches the acceleration and gets the same mileage as theh GS400h. The hybrid is only about .5secs faster than the 303hp GS and I dont think that is worth an extra 10 grand. Maybe you do. As I said, the GS400h is a poor value compared to its V6 brethren and the whole notion of a performance hybrid is silly. Hybrids are for saving fuel, not winning drag races. Who needs a "frugal" performance hybrid when we have 300hp six cylinder cars that get the same mileage for less money?
#1254 of 2415
Other GM I owned by kirstie_h HOST
Jan 19, 2007 (9:15 am)
Was a Chevy Chevette. It was turd-brown (but so were a lot of cars back then, so I don't blame GM). I had electrical issues with it, including consistent problems with heat/blower that just couldn't be turned off. VERY nice in the midwestern summertime. It wasn't THE worst car I've ever owned, but close (that honor goes to mon ami, Le Baron de Chrysler).
 
The 'vette finally just died, and no attempt at resuscitation was made.
#1255 of 2415
Re: Other GM I owned [kirstie_h] by british_rover
Jan 19, 2007 (9:21 am)

Replying to: kirstie_h (Jan 19, 2007 9:15 am)

All Chevettes should have DNRs on file.

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