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Automotive News & Views GM General Model View, Market Share & Profit News 
2415 messages, Last post on Feb 12, 2007 at 4:41 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: lemko (Jan 18, 2007 10:52 pm)  Rocky |
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Replying to: louiswei (Jan 18, 2007 3:09 pm) "To sum it up, the G35 is pretty much the value leader in the entry level luxury sedan class IMO. You don't have to agree with me on this, I am just stating what I believe. " Again, the G35 is a good value overall but it really looks good compared to overpriced European cars. The CTS was re-priced for the '06 model year and offers pretty good value as well.
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Replying to: 1487 (Jan 19, 2007 5:44 am) I'll take the ones that last 10 years and keep on ticking like the Timex ads.
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Replying to: 1487 (Jan 18, 2007 12:46 pm) I never said anywhere on Edmunds that Toyota/Honda "do no wrong." As for a "typical" attitude, that's your opinion -- I've also never bashed GM in these forums. Why should I, given my profile? Regarding options, both of my Camrys are well equipped, but don't go overboard on the options. The '04 LE has a long list of standard equipment (power everything including driver's seat), plus options such as side airbags, ABS, sunroof, and JBL audio upgrade. MSRP: under $22.8K. My '05 XLE is the top of the line model with side airbags as the sole option, but ABS was made standard that year. Included in the standard equipment list are power driver and passenger seats, auto climate control, Homelink, auto-dimming rear view mirror, and JBL CD changer. This car doesn't have the sunroof. MSRP: just over $23.7K. And of course I didn't pay anywhere near MSRP for either car. Granted if you get the V6 engine, Bluetooth, NAV, leather, heated seats, then you're pushing 31K. For that kind of money, I'd be looking at the Acura TL. As you can see from my old Caddy stories, I go back to a time when all of today's standard features like a/c and power windows, mirrors, seats, cruise, etc. were luxuries; hardly anyone had them in cars of the era. So I approach this from a completely different reference point. And I agree Lemko could star in a Cadillac ad, especially with his nearly 20-year-old Fleetwood Brougham in pristine condition. Who again said people don't keep cars longer than 5-7 years? |
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Jan 19, 2007 5:50 am) My employer bought the new Ford Edge. The plastic EVERYWHERE is hard, except on the armrest -- completely wrong IMO for a $30K vehicle. Regarding soft plastics cracking, that seemed to be true in the past, but for one, my '90 Sable's nice soft dash never cracked after 10 years and 135K miles of ownership (never mind the other problems like a failed tranny). |
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Replying to: 210delray (Jan 18, 2007 6:40 pm) One of my favorite professors in college was the guy that came up with the BE ALL YOU CAN BE campaign for the US Army. Now he had great marketing ideas.
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Replying to: fintail (Jan 18, 2007 2:41 pm) Just kidding. It's funny that some in this forum still believe that American press is conspiring to kill American auto industry. And, it's equally funny that some believe that consumers are switching to Japanese because they are too dumb to figure out that American cars are better.
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Replying to: lemonhater (Jan 18, 2007 6:26 pm) " I am sorry, but if people are willing to spend 3,000 more dollars for a Toyota, then perhaps GM has got it’s pricing wrong. " I think not, GM shouldnt price its mainstream offerings much lower than they are now. If people are unwilling to consider reliable domestic offerings and save money that is on them. Your notion that $3000 isn't a lot of money seems at odds with your "keep it cheap and simple" mantra when it comes to cars. On the contrary, to the average buyer $3000 (more if you include interest) is a lot of money. Toyota and Nissan better guarantee me a trouble free experience if I am going to take on thousands of additional debt for a car that, on paper, is no better than an Aura or Fusion. I totally disagree that the $3000 will be spent on repairs anyway in 5 years or so. First of all GM and Ford offer 5 year powertrain warranty so you wont be facing any money out of pocket for tranny or engine issues for 5 years. Secondly, domestics are often cheaper to repair than imports. Thirdly, my parents have an Intrigue that has been out of warranty since 2001 and they haven't spent $3000 on repairs yet, they haven't even come close. They have spent money on maintenance (tires, brakes, etc.) but I would say they have spent less than $500 on actual repairs including a new starter in year 4 or 5. "If you want hp Toyota is not for you, but if you want something small reliable, fuel efficient then you might want to check them out. " That I agree with, if you want a small car with good mileage and dont care about performance Toyota is the place to go. Aside from hybrids, Toyotas fuel efficiency advantage is limited to the Corolla and Yaris. The rest of their cars are comparable to everything else on the market although the Camry V6 gets class leading mileage by a couple MPGs. In trucks and SUVs they are average at best. The Camry four cylinder is 1mpg better than the Malibu and G6 and that is likely due to its 5 speed auto. The '08 Malibu is expected to tie or exceed the Camry four's mileage. Honeslt, the only differentiator for Toyota is hybrid technology. If you want one, you better shop at Toyota but in every other segment there are alternatives that are as good, and in many cases cheaper. "The reason why Toyota gains market share is because they tick fewer people off than GM(perhaps having fewer options to break helps. Less reason to have to go back to the dealer). And, they offer compeling product that the dometics don’t seem to have(like the puris)." Wrong, Toyota's sales increase because it's lineup gets larger every year and because it makes three fuel efficient cars (yaris, Prius, Corolla) that are popular due to our high prices at the pump. aside from the Prius there isnt anything "compelling" at your local Toyota dealership. Toyota's other hybrids offer fuel economy that could be acheived by smaller engines. The camry hybrid is about 10%-15% more efficient than the much cheaper four cylinder in real world mileage. The mileage on the RX and Highlander hybrids is decent, but not good enough to justify the price premiums. Then to add insult to injury they only offer the electric powertrain on loaded models! What is that? Why do they think people want leather, sunroofs and navigation along with synergy drive? If you care about saving the environment you want to get efficiency at the lowest price possible. dont even get me started on the GS400h that got 20mpg in C&Ds test a few months back. The GS300 can match that mileage for thousands less. |
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Jan 19, 2007 5:50 am) Do you speak out of your experience or out of your "you know what"? My family owns a 97' Honda Accord and 99' Toyota Camry and both of them utilized a lot "soft plastics". With occasional cares of cleaner and conditioner both of them them are looking better than ever. By the way, we live in Atlanta so our cars got plenty chances to be under "hot summer sun".
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Replying to: lahiri (Jan 19, 2007 6:06 am) Think about it, if you spent the lass 20-30 years praising imports and cracking jokes about domestic vehicles it would be kind of hard to acknowledge that things have changed. Imagine being a rascist public official in the South before the civil rights movement and then being forced to adjust to life after segregation and other practices were ended. It's just like CR and their reliabilty reports. If CR were ever to show that there isnt a large degree of reliability between cars people wouldnt buy their auto issues anymore. It is in CR's best interest to keep brining us bad news about the reliability of domestic cars because that ensures that people will keep reading each year. CR ranks cars in reliability and shows a bunch of graphs, but the bottom line is even the vehicles they give shaded circles arent unreliable, they are merely less reliable than the VERY reliable cars at the top of the list. IN some cases a vehicle may get a black circle even if the problem rate for that vehicle is less than 10%. It's very complicated, but the end result is that vehicles with poor ratings in that magazine are not usually unreliable in the sense that we use the word. As for the auto buff press, they will give some credit where it's due but everytime that have to make sure the readers know the car they are praising is the exception. The C6, 300C, Aura, Outlook, Sky/Solstice, CTS-V, Tahoe/Yukon, Fusion, etc. are given accolades but it is always with the caveat that "its hard to believe this came from Saturn (or Ford or whomever)". Most reviews I have read about the Aura devote a paragraph or two to criticising former Saturn products and describing how the brand was been a failure. all true, but that is the whole point of reinventing the brand. At some point its time to stop harping on the S series and give credit for the current products.
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