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Automotive News & Views Should cell phone drivers be singled out?
3688 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2009 at 11:39 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Oct 01, 2009 5:36 pm) But, the preponderance of observed distraction types is cell phone use evident by driver holding device to ear. Given the amount of use of "hands-free" devices, one cannot observe these type distractions, EXCEPT when loony driving maneuvers cause one to suspect a driver is using hands-free. MSNBC had clip from DC summit showing U of Utah Professor who said numerous testing they have done shows cell phone users, hand held or hands free, are twice as risky/dangerous on road than legally drunk .08 drivers. Laws needed to ban all kinds of driver cell phone use. Mika Brezinski, host on MSNBC, opined that is inevitable. That would be a good thing just as an open beer can is illegal inside a car even though a driver could consume one beer and be well under .08 DUI threshhold.
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Replying to: xrunner2 (Oct 06, 2009 10:36 am) In your sample of 1, yes, but in aggregate, with statistical signifcance and validity, not so much. That's not saying its not an issue, just saying that its not the biggest issue. Given the amount of use of "hands-free" devices, one cannot observe these type distractions, EXCEPT when loony driving maneuvers cause one to suspect a driver is using hands-free. A couple of tihngs: 1. Virginia Tech did just that. They found a non-statistically significant difference over "just driving." 2. Having the answer and talyoring the data and making assumptions to support that isn't a valid scientific method, for you or Strayer (the U of Utah Prof). MSNBC had clip from DC summit showing U of Utah Professor who said numerous testing they have done shows cell phone users, hand held or hands free, are twice as risky/dangerous on road than legally drunk .08 drivers. So apparently we also lose critical reading skills when the outcome supports a finding we like. Even the researchers who say that realize when they are in error. The study that started it all (New England Journal of Medicine): Association between Cellular-Telephone Calls and Motor Vehicle Collisions The follow up by the original authors and researchers further explaining what they really meantCar phones and car crashes: some popular misconceptions There is no basis with any face validity to relate drunk driving and cell phones usage. Its just not a relevant comparison. The cumulative risk from drunk driving (as mentioned by the folks above) is much greater than that of any invehicle device (although text messaging wasn't around when that comment was made). There is also nothing that links driving behavior in simulators to real world driving...there are correlations. Driving simulators collect driving performance measures like standard deviation of lane position, speed maintenance, and occasionally eye glance behavior. Response time to a stimulus is also a common one (push the horn when you see a car on the shoulder, or a dog on the shoulder, or something like that). It doesn't specifically measure "crashes" becuase it can't. Most researchers use "fuzzy numbers" to say a certian drivng performance = certain death, etc So just to recap: Market saturation of cell phones up almost 1000% in last decade Crash rate (police reported crashes) continues to fall to record lows Data from 100 car nauturalistic driving study (real people driving their own cars using their own phones living their own lives, but with a voyuer) by Virginia Tech showed no statistically significant difference between just driving and driving with a hands free phone. This is normal people having a normal conversation, not young and inexperienced drivers with no established scanning behavior sending text messages using a visual/manual interface that contributes to excessive eyes off road time.
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Oct 07, 2009 4:50 pm) In the second reference you provided, the authors are saying that the increased risk of accidents from cell phone-caused distraction is greater than what they stated in the original article – that the original article’s conclusions were biased towards a more conservative (less risk) outcome . Here are some excerpts: In our research, we found that drivers were 4 times more likely to have a collision when using a cellular telephone than when not using a cellular telephone. What we wish we had explained more clearly in our article, however, was that this increase was not calculated in comparison to the risk of collision under ideal circumstances of no distractions. Actually, the increase was relative to the risk of collision when the driver drove with his or her usual background distractions. Making calls on a cellular telephone is distinctly more risky than listening to the radio, talking to passengers and other activities commonly occurring in vehicles. The records of telephone use were not accurate to the second and our measures of driving patterns were also inexact; together, such imprecision biased the risk estimate toward finding nothing. Our cohort also included a few drivers who did not call while driving, and this made the entire group seem a bit protected from collisions Our study evaluated drivers who owned a cellular telephone, had been in a motor vehicle collision and consented to have us review their detailed cellular telephone billing records. We analyzed no records without signed informed consent. As a consequence, people who were reluctant to participate because of concerns about personal liability were excluded from the analysis. These exclusions can cause our analysis to underestimate by an order of magnitude the risk associated with using a cellular telephone while driving.
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Replying to: srs_49 (Oct 09, 2009 4:15 am) 1. They only studied people who crashed, which is already a very small subset, and of those, only those who would provide phone records 2. The study compared phone records, not calls or content, not weather, not driving conditions, not traffic conditions 3. They compared the people who crashed on a given day to the day before (which presumably, they did not crash 4. They may or may not have been on the phone during that time period the day before 5. They may or may not have been driving during that time period the day before In our research, we found that drivers were 4 times more likely to have a collision when using a cellular telephone than when not using a cellular telephone. What we wish we had explained more clearly in our article, however, was that this increase was not calculated in comparison to the risk of collision under ideal circumstances of no distractions. Actually, the increase was relative to the risk of collision when the driver drove with his or her usual background distractions. Making calls on a cellular telephone is distinctly more risky than listening to the radio, talking to passengers and other activities commonly occurring in vehicles Based on their methodology, I don't quite get how they can make that statement. They are comparing actions on one day to actions on another day. They have no idea if someone is any more or less likely to have adjusted the radio or had a passenger on one day vs another. That said, there is no "ideal driving circumstances with no distraction." In driving studies, (such as the Virgina Tech study) the "just drive" risk wasn't statistically different than the "hands free call."
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Oct 09, 2009 5:28 am) 5. They may or may not have been driving during that time period the day before From the original NEJM article, it stated that: Methods We studied 699 drivers who had cellular telephones and who were involved in motor vehicle collisions resulting in substantial property damage but no personal injury. Each person's cellular-telephone calls on the day of the collision and during the previous week were analyzed through the use of detailed billing records. From that, I would conclude that the study did include for the fact that they may or may not have been on the cell phone the day before the crash, and that they were driving. |
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Calif. First Lady Caught Talking On Phone While Driving (WCBS-TV)
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Replying to: steve_ (Oct 13, 2009 6:09 pm)   In all seriousness, I'm glad Arnie is going to have talk with her. |
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A friend of mine sent me this survey today about a device for cars. I thought it looked useful, especially if you have teen drivers in the household. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=oT03a3YvYFO_2b9MnD2uOZ6Q_3d_3d |
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