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Automotive News & Views Should cell phone drivers be singled out?
3688 messages, Last post on Oct 27, 2009 at 11:39 AM
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Mar 08, 2009 8:27 am) |
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Mar 08, 2009 8:48 am) Safe enough? How long before another technology gadget is introduced and becomes popular and drivers will insist they absolutely have to use it while driving? They will say that it only partially distracts from driving and, after all, humans are equipped to "multi-task". No big deal. They will say, why don't police go after drivers who are "really" distracted, such as swatting kids, eating pizza, smacking a bee, etc.
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Replying to: kdshapiro (Mar 10, 2009 5:17 am) It's not out of scope, the FAA realized a long time ago, piloting heavy machinery requires a concentration to the task at hand. You still didn't respond to my observation/question, do you mind if the pilot or co-pilot texts or uses the cell phone while landing? I don't expect a response, because only a fool would say yes. (not a red herring either, very germane to the conversation) It is an example of peak workload. I don't think I want someone cleaning reactors at a nuclear power plant on their phone either. I also noticed you completely ignored the rest of the flight time other than those 15 minutes at landing. If one wants to prove a point go to the racetrack. In the meantime, road safety and traffic laws have to be designed and built around the lowest common denominator. Even if it means trained race car drivers have to drive at the speed limit and not the speed they are capable of driving at. Speed limits are being addressed in a different forum. Laws have to be designed around the Constitution and Bill of Rights, that is what they are there for. If one wants to live in a Police State, Virgin Atlantic can provide a short journey "across the pond."
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Mar 10, 2009 2:53 pm) Actually included is takeoff also. However, a plane can be put on autopilot or even flown by copilot at cruising altitude. Can't put car on autosteer and autospeed. Driving a car is peak workload at all times behind the wheel. It is true that driving at 60 mph in packed freeway conditions demands a different type of driving then let's say 25 mph down an empty country road in clear conditions. Although you can still end up in ditch or hit someone or something driving 25 mph, if you give up your control of the vehicle by swatting the kids, eating pizza or losing yourself in a conversation on the ol' cell phone. Speed limits are being addressed in a different forum. Laws have to be designed around the Constitution and Bill of Rights, that is what they are there for. If one wants to live in a Police State, Virgin Atlantic can provide a short journey "across the pond." Talk about a red herring.  Our goverment can enact any laws they feel is justified. However the speed limit analogy was used to counter your analogy of peoples abilities.
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Replying to: xrunner2 (Mar 10, 2009 7:25 am) Its not my perceived need. There is just not a lot of rationale for anything else. How long before another technology gadget is introduced and becomes popular and drivers will insist they absolutely have to use it while driving? They will say that it only partially distracts from driving and, after all, humans are equipped to "multi-task". So it is about fear, the unknown...what next? I am planning on waiting until we get there and seeing if its a problem before worrying about it. When cell phones came out, there was mass hysteria... then navigation systems came out, there was mass hysteria...that is why on an OEM system you can't put in the address while you're driving and all the aftermarket ones you can (at least with the Alliance members). Still, no end of the world, no day of judgment... |
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Replying to: xrunner2 (Mar 10, 2009 6:51 am) Opinion Very easy to observe this in every day driving. Anecdotal with additional self selection criteria...perhaps you seem to gravitate towards people on the phone, maybe tailgate a little, give them a little less room because you feel they are being "inconsiderate." |
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Replying to: kdshapiro (Mar 10, 2009 3:46 pm) My initial reply included takeoff, but you didn't mention it in this example so I didn't either. So okay, 30 minutes of a 7 hour flight are "peak workload." Can't put car on autosteer and autospeed. Cruise Control So there is your speed management system circa 1945. Were you concerned that would be the end of the world when it came out too? Steering you have to wait a little while longer, but Infiniti has the first, but poor system. Driving a car is peak workload at all times behind the wheel. I know from the literature you have no way to substantiate that, so I will just correct it for you. When the driver is are 15-18 (inexperienced) or over 68 or 69 (visual acuity and response time), driving a car is peak workload at all times behind the wheel. For everyone else, no. Although you can still end up in ditch or hit someone or something driving 25 mph, if you give up your control of the vehicle by swatting the kids, eating pizza or losing yourself in a conversation on the ol' cell phone. Oh my, I gotta sit down. You made my night. This little phrase if you give up your control of the vehicle; there is hope for mankind, there is hope for personal responsibility. When doing investigations or research and someone says "I lost control of the car" or something I just wanna smack them silly. BS, you don't lose control of a car, you, as you so elegantly stated, give up control of a car. Sure there are times when you can't get the car to do EXACTLY what you want (black ice, excessive standing water, etc) but you can usually get the car to do something better than mowing down kids at a bus stop or something. Okay whew. So yeah, if you aren't paying attention and something changes, it could be bad. Even when studies with drivers use a peripheral detection task (you get them doing something else - like dialing a phone using an upside-down keypad or something annoying like that) and when the get into the task, you do something in the road scene and see if they notice, or flash a light in the car. In some studies, reaction times seem to be statistically significant, but the time difference in real life isn't that significant.
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Mar 10, 2009 6:14 pm) OK. Whatever. Actually I don't care about peakload. I care about the fact the studies have shown significant driver impairment while talking, drivers exhibit significant driver impairment while driving, and I have had to dodge more cell phone users than pizza eating, kid smacking parents. Common sense seems to have taken a back seat lately. Oh my, I gotta sit down. You made my night. This little phrase if you give up your control of the vehicle; there is hope for mankind, there is hope for personal responsibility Just because I believe it is not a right, but a privilege to drive your car (my state thinks the same), doesn't mean I don't want tough laws enforced for those who abuse given privilege. Giving up control of your vehicle via the cell phone is an example of a set if laws that I believe should be enforced with commesurate penalities and fines. Give someone a break for the first offense when the car is not under driver control, but then let the fines and points start piling up for subsequent offenses. I agree with previous poster, cops who catch people reading the paper, applying makeup, swatting the kids and the like, should automatically face tough penalities. Your discussion is a smokescreen because there is not one iota of proof, driving while taking/texting on the cell phone doesn't have a dramatic effect on the ability to drive effectively.
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Mar 10, 2009 6:14 pm) We debated this issue in a discussion around here years ago. The example I gave was a bee sting. The context was whether people really had car "accidents" that weren't due to their own negligence somehow. I think there are situations where you can lose control of your car through no fault of your own - your car gets struck by lightning or you get a bee sting in your eyelid. This is distinguished from the situation where you are cruising around town and someone T-bones you out of the blue from a side alley hidden by parked cars because the driver of the other car was yakking on their cell phone. (There was no consensus on whether a driver can have an "accident" btw).
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Replying to: kdshapiro (Mar 10, 2009 6:31 pm) I totally agree, in fact, in my quickie google search, so does almost every state legilstature. I agree with previous poster, cops who catch people reading the paper, applying makeup, swatting the kids and the like, should automatically face tough penalties. Nope, gotta actually do something wrong first. If you are picking your nose and run a stop sign or red light, then yup, tie them up take them to the edge of the village and stone them, but I do feel they should commit a crime first. Secondary enforcement is important here...you make good decisions, you get left alone...you abuse the privilege, you get taken to task for it. Your discussion is a smokescreen because there is not one iota of proof, driving while taking/texting on the cell phone doesn't have a dramatic effect on the ability to drive effectively. First off, I didn't include texting, you did. Secondly, you are saying my discussion is bunk because I can't prove something isn't happening? I think you have a few too many negatives in there my friend. So, quick review...cell phone penetration at 950% over the last 10 years (that means more phones), number of vehicle miles traveled up (that means more cars on the road more often) every year except for this year (dang gas prices), Governor's Highway Safety Association says crashes and fatalities at their lowest point in recorded history (that "implies" roads are safer). Where is the crisis?
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