Last post on Jan 03, 2012 at 6:28 PM
You are in the Acura MDX
What is this discussion about?
Acura MDX, BMW X5, SUV
#41 of 185 comparison
Mar 12, 2007 (7:11 pm)
I'd narrowed down my choices to the xc90, mdx and x5, all 2007's. I liked the xc90 front seat area, back seat (2nd row) was just too cramped. I really don't need a third row as we have a Suburban for that. Some feel the interior is too plain. I feel it's serene, not too fussy. But it's been eliminated. Then we checked out the mdx. Sharp looking inside, roomy interior. Did not like the exterior, just okay looking, looks like too many others. Driving it was good but not great to me. Although, now I drive a bmw 530 sport with manual. Big change to an suv. I tried to like the mdx, but it just felt like a Toyota. Also, both times I took it for a test drive, my back hurt. Then I went to look at the 2007 530 to see if they've increased interior space - not noticeable if they did. Decided to look at the new x5. Once I got in that and took it for a drive, I was sold. To me, it's just in a different league than the mdx and xc90. You're right, the 3rd row is laughable, which is what I did when I saw it. Again, I don't need the 3rd row. Loved the interior! It reeks of quality. Very comfortable, roomy, love the panoramic sunroof. Maybe I'm just used to the feel of bmw, but I felt there just wasn't any comparison. Again, it's pricier, but I believe worth it. Btw, my 2001 530 has been a great car. I keep hearing about reliability with bmw's, but mine has been wonderful, except for the cupholders! I have 77,000 miles on mine now and would not hesitate to get another bmw.
#42 of 185 Re: Business Week Review [tonymdx07]
Mar 12, 2007 (8:39 pm)
I trust my personal experience over the anecdotal complaints of this or that person who had a bad experience with an 8 year old BMW. The fact is that newer BMWs are extremely reliable. My family has had 11 BMWs in 10 years, including 5 X5's. With the exception of my 2002 745i, they have all been extremely reliable. None of my X5's has ever gone back to the dealer for warranty repair. The MOST unreliable car I've ever owned was an Acura; not a month passed without a warranty repair visit to the dealer. Further example: the Acura RL has a miserable repair record.
The problem here is that Japanese car buyers are used to buying whatever mass-produced-truck-dressed-up-as-a-luxury-SUV happens to be on the lot with options chosen by someone else. It's just a car, so why put any thought into it? Just buy one of the hundreds of cars just like it on the lot.
The X5's rear seat is an option because not everyone wants one, so they give you a choice. I ordered an X5 without a 3rd row seat. You could have done the same. (This isn't a mini-van. I agree that the 3rd-row seat is pointless in a vehicle like this.)
Every BMW is made to order either to a customer's or dealer's option spec. You can have a custom-optioned X5 delivered in as little as 6 weeks if you can't find one on the lot that fits your needs. When your X5 moves along the assembly line in Spartanburg, SC, it has your name and your option choices attached to it from beginning to end. At any time, your sales person can tell you which stage of production your car is in, when it's on the truck, and which day it will arrive for delivery. (Try custom ordering an Acura or Lexus and see how long you wait and whether they can do the same.)
You must be the only person on the planet who thinks the X5 is NOT about performance. The choice of an Acura over a BMW is never about BMW performance shortcomings. It's usually about price. And it's about buying a dressed up Honda (Acura) off the lot cheap and quick because it's good enough. Anyone who is happy with cars that are just "good enough" would be smart not to pay the premium for a BMW.
#43 of 185 Re: Business Week Review [anon3]
Mar 12, 2007 (9:15 pm)
You must be the only person on the planet ...
Marginalizing the opposition isn't a particularly persuasive argument. Certainly you can come up with something more convincing. Or maybe not.
SUVs and Smart Shopper
#44 of 185 Re: Business Week Review [anon3]
Mar 12, 2007 (9:38 pm)
The fact is that newer BMWs are extremely reliable
I will let the results speak for themselves:
BMW: BMWs are sporty, ride well, and have good crash-test results. Reliability is inconsistent.
Acura/Honda: Hondas and Acuras have the best reliability overall in our survey and consistently high test scores.
I have nothing against BMWs - I really like the way they drive. In fact the next car I lease (not buy) will probably be a BMW. But I have to say I am very happy with my 07 MDX. When I compared it to 07 X5, the ride/handling in 07 MDX was better (my opinion). Yeah, the 4.8 X5 is quicker due to its V8, but that's about it. The sh-awd system in MDX makes all the difference. I can take corners as if I am riding a sports car. Just amazing.
And BTW, what's wrong with Honda - I would have still bought it if it was called Honda MDX 07 - in fact one of the reasons I did buy it was because its a Honda! Just because Honda makes economy cars, does not mean they cannot also build luxury/performance oriented vehicles.
#45 of 185 Re: Business Week Review [anon3]
Mar 13, 2007 (8:55 am)
"You must be the only person on the planet who thinks the X5 is NOT about performance."
Everyone has different criteria when determining performance needs. For example, I know many enthusiasts who would say that anyone serious about performance would never buy an SUV, no matter which company builds it. They'd be towing an S2000 behind a beater K5 Blazer, or something. Even if they had the "one vehicle with cargo space" dilemma, they'd go with a sport wagon instead of an SUV.
I haven't seen the new MDX go head to head with the new X5, so there is plenty left to be seen. However, I've read several reports, from different events, where the only SUV posting laps faster than the MDX is the Cayenne. If that level of performance is merely "good enough", we're going to need much, much better roads in the US.
#46 of 185 Re: Business Week Review [justg0]
Mar 14, 2007 (2:19 pm)
As I said in my original statement, I will trust my personal experience about BMW reliability. Since I've owned 5 X5's since 2001, I'd say my personal experience is pretty significant. Can you or the original poster can say the same?
(Have you been to the factories where your cars are built? Have you taken them out on a track and run them at the limit? I have. And everyone who buys a new BMW has an opportunity to do the same, in many cases with free hotel, meals, and driving instructor at the BMW performance center.)
I've also read Consumer Reports ratings over the years. My personal experience directly contradicts their statements. And, their analysis methodology is flawed. In one new car edition, they pronounced the 2002 X5 a used vehicle to avoid and "not reliable". Yet, their detailed chart on another page stated that they had "insufficient data" to assess the 2002 X5. That is not fact-based analysis. So as I originally stated, I will trust my own experience with BMW over the media and Joe Schmoe's posting.
Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus SUVs are great vehicles, but they mass produce their upscale vehicles on the same platforms as their economy vehicles. For example, a Lexus SUV is NOT purpose-built from the ground up to be a Lexus. It's a truck (or car in a couple cases) dressed up with wood and leather. Although the X5 shares corporate engines, transmissions, etc, its platform is built to be an X5 and not shared with other vehicles (like the 5 series, contrary to popular misconception). BMW doesn't have an economy division that supplies the platforms, steering components, suspensions, etc for its upscale vehicles. That makes a big difference to me.
It's all a matter of personal requirements and preferences. If you don't care about the subtleties of chassis dynamics or performance at the limits, or if BMW's brand of driving dynamics is not worth the premium price, then an Acura or Lexus is a fine choice.
#47 of 185 Re: Business Week Review [tidester]
Mar 14, 2007 (2:39 pm)
Well, Tidester, it seems to me that citing my personal experience with 5 X5s since 2001 (plus an M3, an M5, a 645ci, a 745i, a 325xi, and an X3 3.0i) should qualify as "something convincing". How many readers/posters can claim the same level of personal experience with BMW reliability?
I stand by my statement that "newer" BMWs are reliable in my experience and that BMW is a performance brand by definition.
I also don't consider the original poster to be "the opposition".
#48 of 185 Re: Business Week Review [anon3]
Mar 14, 2007 (8:07 pm)
...citing my personal experience ... should qualify as "something convincing".
I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I was commenting specifically on your "You must be the only person on the planet ..." comment.
SUVs and Smart Shopper
#49 of 185 2007 X5 Emissions (ULEV-2 or not)
Mar 14, 2007 (8:08 pm)
The emissions ratings are confusing. EPA links show the new X5 to be worse than average for pollution and greenhouse gases in cars with non-California emissions.
Yet the V8 engine in the new X5 is ULEV-II compliant (second generation ultra-low emissions vehicle) and European level 4 emissions, which is the cleanest rating until levels 5/6 go into effect in 2009.
(Ultra-Low Emissions Vehicle is a vehicle that has been verified by the California Air Resources Board to emit 50% less polluting emissions than the average for new cars released in that model year.)
So, either the EPA ratings are wrong. Or, X5s sold outside California are not ULEV-II compliant. Anyone know which is true?
#50 of 185 Re: Business Week Review [anon3]
Mar 14, 2007 (10:26 pm)
Ok, you had a great experience with BMW, that's great. But I would rather take Consumer Reports opinion over your's or anyone's else, just because that's going to be more statistically sound. You may choose to disregard Consumer Reports and that's your choice.
As far as diving is concerned, I really do not understand or care if Acura does platform sharing or BMW does not make economy cars - at the end of the day it comes down to how I feel when I am behind the wheel. I don't care about names or labels or prestige, ...
I do not at all doubt BMW makes great handling cars - love the 3 series and M3/5. And yes, I do care about "subtleties of chassis dynamics or performance at the limits", but then people who care about those don't drive a SUV. Just because X5 is a BMW (drum roll - the ultimate driving machine) does not overcome the fact that is still a big heavy vehicle. At that size, it's really hard to talk about things like "driving dynamics".
I would have very gladly paid about 15K more for an equivalent X5, but I think MDX with the sh-awd handles much better. Take note, I am not talking about Lexus SUV or any other Acura/Honda vehicle - all I am saying is that 07 MDX with handles much better than 07 X5. That's my opinion - you have yours.