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Acura MDX vs BMW X5

185 messages,  Last post on Jan 03, 2012 at 7:28 PM

You are in the Acura MDX Forum.

What is this discussion about? Acura MDX, BMW X5, SUV

Messages Page 16 of 20

#144 of 185 Re: mdx vs x5 [sanjaysdca] by abmwfan

Sep 08, 2010 (4:46 pm)

Replying to: sanjaysdca (Sep 07, 2010 2:31 pm)
Sanjaya, Let's focus on a few of the incorrect facts in your post that are easily verifiable. You said that it's only valid to compare comparably-equipped vehicles. So let's play by your rules for a moment.
 
First: Your claim that the MDX is quicker than the X5 is based on a two-year-old comparison between a 300 HP MDX and a heavier X5 with the base 260 HP engine. Even then, the lighter MDX with 40 more horsepower only beat the heavier X5 by .2 seconds 0 to 60. That's pretty pathetic. And BMW doesn't sell that engine in the X5 any longer.
 
So let's use your rules to directly compare apples to apples: 2011 MDX to 2011 X5 3.5i. Both have 300 horsepower 6 cylinder gasoline engines. Both just completed their mid-model refresh and received a new transmission and revised engines.The MDX weighs 4,550 pounds. The X5 weighs 4,960 pounds.Both vehicles are the newest, best, most competitive that these two manufacturers can produce in this particular configuration. Published numbers for 0 to 60 are:
 
MDX: 7 seconds
X5: 6.4 seconds (for the record, BMW's published numbers are conservative averages that are usually overstated. So tests are likely to show performance closer to 6.1 seconds.)
 
Second: You say that the MDX gets better mpg than the X5 and you quote fueleconomy.gov
MDX 16 (city) 21 (Hwy) AND
X5 15 (city) 21 (Hwy)
 
Again your numbers are out of date. Comparing apples to apples, fueleconomy.gov says:
 
MDX: 17 city/22 highway, 19 combined
BMW: 17 city/25 highway, 20 combined
 
So here we see that the X5 has leaped ahead of the MDX's old design and engine architecture. While the MDX previously may have been competitive as a "budget/value" option, it hasn't kept up with the competition. The X5 is faster and gets better mpg than the MDX even though it's still 400 lbs heavier. The early reports also show the X5 to be quieter and smoother, while the MDX's engine is described as "truck like".
 
This was achieved through direct injection engines, use of advanced turbos, 8 speed transmissions, and advanced engine management systems that you dismiss because you prefer Honda's SOHC 24valve VTEC technology that first debuted around 1995. Tell the truth, are you somebody's grandpa who thinks that things are better just because they're old and that's how things were done decades ago?
 
Third: you say that "performance SUV is an oxymoron term". Over a million BMW, Porsche, and Infiniti buyers will disagree with you. An SUV that will hit 60 mph in 4.7 seconds or less is by definition a performance SUV. You can live in denial, but numbers are numbers and the success of that market segment is proof that performance SUVs do exist. I think your point is that you don't care about performance when you're shuttling the kids from point A to B. Even if you don't value performance, you can't rationally pretend that performance SUVs are an invalid class of vehicles.
 
Fourth: you say that the RX was the first luxury CUV/SUV. Range Rover was the first luxury SUV. The X5 and the RX both debuted in 2000, so you can't claim that the X5 followed/copied the RX. The car-based utility vehicle (CUV) RX is not a performance vehicle and not in the same class as the X5. The X5 is not a CUV (not built on a 5 series car platform). It uses a purpose-built platform that isn't shared by any BMW cars and it is segmented into a different market segment from the RX. So the comparison between the X5 and the RX is not valid.
 
So here's the point: My previous post was about choices that a true luxury manufacturer offers its buyers. Of course the MDX doesn't compare to those X5s because Honda's Acura isn't a true luxury brand. Their business model is entry-level luxury, one-size fits all vehicles that are mass produced from the parts bin using decade-old engine and transmission technology in order to reduce manufacturing costs so that they can sell at a price point that appeals to budget conscious buyers. The Acura customer demographic is for Entry Level Luxury. That means their customers got a pay raise and now can afford to pay an extra $8k to trade the Honda for something with a few more options, nicer leather, and a little more prestige. Honda created the Acura brand to ensure that their customers have something to trade up to as they age. And to ensure that Honda owners wouldn't be forced to look at other brands once they moved a rung higher into middle class.
 
As said in a previous post, you're not a BMW customer and you're not their target demographic. The traits that make BMW a true luxury vehicle would be lost on someone who is looking for a comfortable multi-purpose vehicle to haul around some kids for a "value" price. With all the mentions of "price" and "value" in your posts, why not just admit the truth: you didn't want to pay the premium for a BMW so you bought second best.

#145 of 185 Re: mdx vs x5 [abmwfan] by sanjaysdca

Sep 08, 2010 (4:43 pm)

Replying to: abmwfan (Sep 08, 2010 4:46 pm)
abmwfan
This probably is my last reply to your post:
 
First: Calm down its just a discussion. You might want to learn "how to respond" and keep the post civilized and not attack people. Else when you really need information people probably will not respond.
 
I never said that MDX is faster than X5. You probably misread it and it happens when we are more focussed on responding instead of trying to understand the discussion. I too am guilty of it...when I had just started posting in internet sites. We all learn in due time.
 
RX was first that defined this segment. Range Rovers and LX etc. were body on frame. Even first mid size luxury SUV ML was body on fame. Unit body midsize SUV was first introduced by Lexus as RX 300.
 
For a min forget about marketing hype and think about it
Can a 4-ton high center of gravity vehicle be a drivers vehicle? I rest my case.
 
FWIW: The cost was not a issue
I paid cash for MDX
I paid cash for Audi S6
I paid cash for Infiniti I30
and all my previous cars(G20, Mazda 323, Nissan Sentra, VW Jetta)
 
However for a comfortable people mover like X5, MDX, RX, ML or any other SUV I will talk about value same way when I talk about hiring or giving raises to my high-value employees who then go and mortgage/lease their future to get a blue propeller and THINK they bought the best.
 
I think I am digressing and should stop.

#146 of 185 Re: mdx vs x5 [sanjaysdca] by abmwfan

Sep 08, 2010 (5:19 pm)

Replying to: sanjaysdca (Sep 08, 2010 4:43 pm)
Sanjaya, nothing in this discussion was uncivilized. I think you're just threatened by someone who points out your incorrect facts, your lack of understanding of BMW and vehicle market segmentation. You spouted out-of-date numbers and bad data. You were wrong. Get over it.
 
BTW, body on frame construction is irrelevant to whether the Range Rover is a luxury SUV.
 
And BTW, your statement/question "Can a 4-ton high center of gravity vehicle be a drivers vehicle? I rest my case." is ludicrous. None of these SUVs weighs 4 tons (8,000 pounds). What are you talking about? I don't think you know either..
 
This isn't "marketing hype". The entire point of this discussion was to go beyond marketing hype get to the facts and numbers.
 
And the point of this discourse really is not to respond to you. It's to correct your distortions and bad data before they are picked up by other readers and become part of popular internet lore.
 
So here is a direct question for you. How many of the vehicles on your list have you ever taken to a track or run through a skid pad, slalom, etc? I have a LOT of experience with BMW in those areas, including SUVs. I'm speaking from experience because I have first hand knowledge how performance SUVs handle in those conditions. What's your experience with a vehicle aside from the highway?
 

#147 of 185 Re: mdx vs x5 [sanjaysdca] by anon3

Sep 08, 2010 (6:55 pm)

Replying to: sanjaysdca (Sep 08, 2010 4:43 pm)
However for a comfortable people mover like X5, MDX, RX, ML or any other SUV I will talk about value same way when I talk about hiring or giving raises to my high-value employees who then go and mortgage/lease their future to get a blue propeller and THINK they bought the best.
 
Look at your list, sanjaysdca, you've never even owned a BMW. So how can you have a valid opinion about what's the "best"? I've owned Acura, and Audi, and BMW, and a number of other vehicles so I have direct personal experience with both makes. Acura is the reason that I switched to German cars.
 
This discussion attempted to focus on verifiable facts and I'm glad that someone took the time to correct the bad data that you were perpetuating.
 

#148 of 185 The Topic by tidester

Sep 08, 2010 (6:42 pm)

The topic is Acura MDX vs BMW X5. Let's not make it Member A vs Member B vs Member C.
 
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

#149 of 185 MDX v X5 by meegwell01

Sep 14, 2010 (10:04 am)

maybe a fresh perspective from someone in the market and reading this thread may help shed new light.
 
The argument over performance is a bit off base here for a number of reasons on both sides. The way I look at it is that each person values performance differently. If you want it, its a higher prioridy. Performance, however, is not just a measurement of top speed so saying that just because you'll probably never reach X published top speed you shouldn't value performance is moot. I drive a performance sedan (530i) because I want to be able to pass with ease, and take off/on ramps at higher than normal (and suggested) speeds, among other things. I like the rush. Has nothing to do with my cars electronically limited top speed.
 
Further, perfomrance SUVs are real and a real segment. No, they are not the same and will not stand up to performance sedans, coupes, or roadsters because they are bigger, bulkier, and heavier. That is not a reason to make a performance SUV. If you follow the logic that a performance SUV is an oxymoran, then you must only believe that the smallest pure-purpose vehicle (little roadsters I guess) are the only performance vehicles and every other vehicle labeled performance is a joke. Obviously not the case. And more obvious is the large amount of choices for performance SUVs. We here in America even race trucks at a professional level for crying out loud.
 
Cornering, tire quality, brake quality...on an on. If you want performance, get performance.
 
Someone earlier described to a tee the target market that Honda and Toyota were going after in creating their luxury brands. This is just a business fact. Someone else responded to it as an insult, stating they pay cash for all their cars or something to that effect. The fact surrounding the target market for Lexus and Infiniti is very relevant here. It couples with the parts bin, purpose built, and cost facts also. They knew they could cut costs and deliver a product that is close enough to have people on the internet argue over which is better. Some believe you "get what you pay for", others dont.
 
Value is a relative term. I like the tight feel and responsiveness from steering wheel to road when it comes to my vehicle. Others dont care about that but do care that their leather has a name like "napa" (< see, someone will explain to me how it feels nicer or something and Im thinking "thats nice but I dont think I'll pay extra for it over regular leather"). The bottom line is that anyone looking at an MDX/X5 (I throw the Lexus GX470/460 in here even though its technically not the same) has some decisions to make. Those that choose the japanese brand over the german brand most likely do so because of "value" reasons as it relates to how much they pay vs. what they got (and may not be related to what they didn't get). That is factual also. This is the internet. We can all claim that we are millionaires that own all these vehicles and money wasn't an issue in our decision. So be it.

#150 of 185 This is just my Fact... by sparklelove

Sep 15, 2010 (8:24 am)

To the person or x publisher that had an opinion about what some x publishers had to say, I feel the need to post my facts, as I feel the first paragraph was addressed to me, and If it wasn't then, I'm just gonna state my fact. I said in my statement and I'll say it again, no one will ever touch top speed in their bmw so to say you paid top dollar for your engine because it goes x amount of mph is useless which means you paid for an engine you will never use, I never stated preformance or ever stated to not value preformance, but since it was brought up, I'll state it, if preformace is what you want by all means do so, as I stated b4 it is your choice, but to bring up x amount of mph to another car is pointless unless you will touch the x amount of mph to state your opinion to be relevent, now this is just my say so, like it or not it is true.
 
I believe if 1 wants to address an x publishers post to read first before judgements are made, fair arguments are always good cuz 1 gets to see and try to understand another persons point of view, and try to adjust 1 or 2 things about the post, but to try to explain in judgement form about x publisher this and that is poor taste, each publisher has a right to state or post what or who they know even if it's right or wrong, fact or fiction. So be it

#151 of 185 Re: MDX vs X5 [cr1970] by cablue

Sep 15, 2010 (9:14 am)

Replying to: cr1970 (Sep 07, 2010 12:46 pm)
I looked at both of these almost a year ago. I went with the X5 diesel. If you're willing to spend the extra money, you won't be disappointed with the X5d. We purchased ours and plan to keep it long-term. We've had a number of BMWs and no problems with them. Reliability has simply not been an issue. Of course, there will be those that have, but that's with every make. Acuras may be more reliable, but by how much? I LOVE my X5d. Every day I look forward to driving it. The Acura is nice, too, but not at the same level, imo. Also, I'm getting around 28-29 hwy, and 24 mixed driving, better than any of my BMW sedans I've had (5 series.)

#152 of 185 Re: mdx vs x5 [abmwfan] by pb13f8013

Sep 15, 2010 (4:00 pm)

Replying to: abmwfan (Sep 08, 2010 5:19 pm)
Wow....u r really mad. I am sure you were typing standing up and angry. And it could be possible that you took a day off to write these responses......hahahaha.......just kidding.
 
But I understand your concerns and the excellence of BMW. I myself drive an S4 and admire the German engineering (& its the same S4 which's been beating 335 for last few yrs now.....but no need to get into that). I tried selling it for Infiniti G37 or BMW 335, but couldn't (had terrible experience with 3 series in the past).
 
I've had an MDX and X5 4.8xi both. I was recently shopping for new SUV and test drove these two plus Rangerover sport and Cayenne. I just got a new Cayenne S. About the two in question, I think X5 is in the same class of MDX and I needed a step up from both. Moreover, X5 3.0 didn't feel any special to me over MDX. The electronic gadgets in MDX were much more sophisticated than X5. The I-drive system is dumbass system, period. The sound system in MDX is better and so is the roominess and smooth ride. MDX was pretty responsive but X5 is better in that, period, you wre right there. X5 had tighter body feel and yes you are right about less road noise (but not by much) but overall not a step higher than MDX. There's no one criteria which makes one SUV better than the other, its the matter of satisfaction.
 
You can create micro-levels of luxury SUVs (just like I did) but that's not the discussion. Read magazines, see websites, Acura is a luxury brand with one of highest technology and reliability, industry compares it to any other luxury brand, with BMW's, Porsches etc etc, they can't be blind. The discussion is which SUV satisfies your needs or wants.
 
Another example, X5 is a good sports german engineered activity vehicle. But why didn't you buy a Porsche Cayenne? Its better than X5 in all those driving dynamics, luxury factors, prestige and even reliability (check JD power etc etc). Just like you are trying to prove your purchase to be right, the previous guy was doing the same, again human nature. And he was right in the case of body on frame vs crossover like SUVs (in which lexus was the first------you were wrong and get over it). He bought an MDX, is happy with it and so r u with X5. Every car company has a gem model. BMW's known for 3 series not X5, Acura's known for MDX, not TSX.
 
And yes, I do have experience with cars and SUVs aside from highways. Race? that's what I've been doing since I started driving, so anytime.....!
 
I was here to see what people think about the comparisons of SUVs, not to hear brand fans.
 
Hope you enoy your X5 for a long time....!
 
Cheers.....good times.......!

Messages Page 16 of 20

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