Last post on Mar 14, 2013 at 8:16 AM
You are in the Cadillac CTS/CTS-V
What is this discussion about?
Cadillac CTS-V, Cadillac CTS, Sedan
Mar 19, 2007 (5:03 am)
I went to the BMW dealer. I sat across from a sales rep. I asked about two BMW's. The price of both of them was north of $46,000 (which is where I think the CTS will be.)
I went to an Acura dealer. Same routine, this time, I asked about the price for an MDX w/sport package.
Actually, repeated the exercise with a Volvo V8 XC90
36/45K (and if no maint, tell me the cost of main for required items for 45K)
Assume: first mo payment.
Assume: Ohio sales tax paid in one lump
Assume: 50 50 chance of sec dep (and please tell me)
I had checked the on line calculations, but as I have come to learn, the on line calcs are pretty much all over the board as far as reality goes. A reason seems to be the cap costs -- and my criteria says "no cap cost -- unless provided in the form of off MSRP."
I am looking to break the $50K barrier and still get an ELLPS or LPS with AWD and what is generally termed "technology" package.
As of March -- either a BMW X3 or 335xi can be had, thusly equipped, etc, for numbers UNDER $640. Apparently, so can a $54K Volvo XC90, but I am somewhat suspect of this number because the person who did the calculations would not meet with me personally, there was a runner in between who kept going between us -- and the numbers, at first, kept coming back at 72 months for a buy, not 36 months for a lease.
In any case, using the BMW store's numbers, compared to the Acura store's, etc, the BMW had a residual as high as 64% and as low as 61%. The Volvo was 47%, the Acura was kept secret.
A $48K BMW compared to a $45,995 Acura, for instance, was over $200 less per month, same deal and the BMW did come with full maintenance which, over 45K miles is probably, worth at least $500 (more if I had to buy the $80 wiper blades that we seem to go through every 6 months, I'd imagine.)
Full disclosure -- the current car's lease is up in about ~ 12 months. We will be placing an order in ~9 months, for a new car -- we told every dealership this. We told them this is how we shop and that we would be expecting a 2008 and that any price they gave us today would only be to place the cars in some sort of "current perspective."
That is, we all know the Fed could lower interest rates, which may lower money factors on leases. Residual calculations may warrant improvements (or not) in residuals and the overall state of the world may dictate off MSRP discounts (or not) that we don't know about now.
The cars in question are from about $46K to $54K.
I would never expect certain cars to be "pushed" -- the Audi S4, the BMW M3, perhaps a CTS-V fits in there too.
We (my wife and I) were looking at more "mundane" (if somehting that costs $50K can be called mundane) cars. We are both tired of being told "nicely equipped" for $39K.
The new CTS is appealing on so many fronts, but then again, the STS was too -- and I couldn't make it work. If BMW subvents its cars, it must do so because they can afford to do so based either on their cost of money (which I doubt would be seriously different than the other guys) or their willingness to claim and live by higher residuals. Subvented or not, TODAY, there are $46K cars that lease at a number beginning with an "8" and $48K cars that do the same thing with numbers beginning with a "6" and then they include maintenance.
It is true the MSRP of so many of our cars over the years has been over $50K, but even at $53,286, my Audi is $640 and change per month for a 36/45K lease. That was 2005, it may not be repeated, I know this.
The Cadillac appeals because it is an American car. Further, it appeals for its size and apparent content. Many here seem to believe it will NOT tickle the underbelly of $50K -- even though the STS experience would seem to contradict this.
But I am not speaking of a base car, rather of the AWD version with "all" the technology -- I do not dispute that the CTS RWD with perhaps one "premium" option may well remain below $40K.
Most folks, when confronted with, for instance, a $46K car from company "A" that leases for mid "$8's" and also having a $48K car from company "B" that leases for low to mid "$6's" will consider the car from "B" if they are in any way comparable modes of transportation and creature comfort.
I do not have a BMW, I have never personally owned one. My wife has had two (1988 and 2005.) They SEEM to be so much lower in price than so many other cars out there when one considers leasing. They (on the LPS board) are the number one or number two selling car month after month, due I assume, in no small measure to their lease prices (and over 75% of them are leased, according to my BMW dealer.)
I priced using the Internet and Cincinnati area dealerships.
The new CTS, I would imagine, will not have any programs initially. The current Cadillacs (but NOT ALL of them) have some handsome incentives -- if this keeps us, the new CTS when it is no longer BRAND NEW and in the spotlight, may well be both the car and the bargain I'm hoping it will be.
#728 of 2880 Re: Lease calculator [markcincinnati]
Mar 19, 2007 (5:24 pm)
Well the Bimmer's lease calculator with $2,500 down was $842 a month 36/45K for $45K. I don't know how you are getting these $400-600 a month lease prices unless you are buying cars with special lease programs ?
#729 of 2880 Re: Lease calculator [rockylee]
Mar 20, 2007 (6:11 am)
You sat across from a sales rep in an authorized BMW dealer and discussed an X3 and a 3 series? (I had previously mentioned I had discussed the X3 and I had previously mentioned that cars like the Audi S4 and BMW hot rods are rarely if ever subject to "subventing.")
"I went to the BMW dealer. I sat across from a sales rep. I asked about two BMW's. The price of both of them was north of $46,000 (which is where I think the CTS will be.)"
I called my BMW rep and these numbers, reported earlier, by me, still hold. The web configurators are, at best, approximations -- but they should be consulted, for they do represent a starting point.
One thing, the $2,500 cap cost that is on the web, is required -- but not from the customer. The dealer, should he/she be so inclined is very able to provide this reduction (as did ours.)
#730 of 2880 Re: Any other shots/info?? [ral1960]
Mar 20, 2007 (11:43 am)
Thanks for those links!!
I think in order to compete (and stand out) in this segment, the CTS will have to offer some compelling color options/combos above and beyond the standard fare. Audi has done well with the taxi-cab yellow S4's, both standard 3's and M3's have interesting interior colors (cinnamon, terra brown, etc etc) that really pop....
Price of entry I think in this segment...
#731 of 2880 Re: Any other shots/info?? [socalbmmr]
Mar 20, 2007 (8:52 pm)
I'm encouraged that GM is putting more multi-color interiors in cars like the 08 Malibu and Enclave. I've resolved that after all-gray interiors since 1984, my next car will not be neutral or monochromatic inside.
Someone several pages ago said he'd heard from his local dealer that a cloth interior would be standard on the base model CTS. I took that to the cadillacowners.com forum and got chewed out by a snotty 4th gen. Cadillac dealer from L.A. Of course, he'd never experienced humidity like we have in NC, so he had no idea why anyone wouldn't want leather in a luxury car.
Speaking of pig-headed posters, I realized many of the threads at GMI (as gminsidenews is known) degenerate into the same arguments and opinions over and over again. Still, most GM developments show up there, so it's worth visiting, if only to get a link to a news article at another site.
#732 of 2880 Re: Lease calculator [markcincinnati]
Mar 20, 2007 (9:15 pm)
Well I doubt the calculator is $200-300 off per month. I will call on a BMW 335i sedan lease maybe tommorow just to see.
#733 of 2880 Re: Lease calculator [rockylee]
Mar 21, 2007 (5:43 am)
I'll redo, too!
335xi with sat nav, premium and a couple other things.
#734 of 2880 Re: Lease calculator [markcincinnati]
Mar 22, 2007 (12:50 am)
Mark, I got busy today buying a used family car. Perhaps I can give it a try in the next few days.
#735 of 2880 Re: Lease calculator [markcincinnati]
Mar 22, 2007 (4:40 pm)
The lease calculator on bmwusa.com is not accurate. Currently, BMW is offering leases for 3-series with the following deal: 3 yrs/36,000 mi, 60% residual value and about .00125 money factor. Plug those in and you should get a payment around 575- 650 depending on sticker price.
#736 of 2880 Re: Lease calculator [socalbmmr]
Mar 22, 2007 (4:55 pm)
I thought that is what I said, but not in so many words.
Unless the CTS is less expensive than a 5 series, I think it will face an uphill battle.
That is, of course, if the CTS is as popular to lease as Bimmers seem to be.
For, who would pay more per month for a $40K CTS than a $50K BMW?
I don't know how and I almost don't care -- but when my company, those many moons ago, offered a car allowance (for a lease), I literally looked first at a Chrysler product.
My then boss, himself owning an Audi Silver Fox, a BMW Bavaria and a Porsche 944, showed me an article about a new car, called an Audi 5000 (the 100LS was pretty much considered a losing proposition at the time).
He showed me that I could lease a new 1978 Audi 5000 for less money than a Dodge Charger or a Cordoba or even an Olds Toronado, even though they had lower MSRP's.
I went for the Audi 5000.
Cadillac's new CTS is a very compelling package (on cyber paper) -- I hope they "lease them" to move them (taking a page from BMW.)