Last post on Mar 14, 2013 at 9:16 AM
You are in the Cadillac CTS/CTS-V
What is this discussion about?
Cadillac CTS-V, Cadillac CTS, Sedan
#566 of 2880 Re: ... [markcincinnati]
Feb 09, 2007 (6:39 am)
Please stop with the hawg wash !!!!
You speak so much about generation behind and how the 08' CTS has 2005 content. Please start naming off important features found on the Acura TL, Infiniti G35, BMW 335i, Lexus IS 350, that aren't on the 08' CTS ???? PLEASE I'M ALL EARS.....Hell some of those models I mentioned like the Infiniti G35, 335i, came out in MY 2007. The IS 350 only came out in MY 06.
I think Plekto, is right and you have a personal problem with Cadillac whipping those Germans butts and you don't like it !!!!
#567 of 2880 Re: ... [rockylee]
Feb 09, 2007 (8:12 am)
Easy, Rocky. I've been reading Mark's posts for years. He has an unusual, think-out-loud style of writing that takes some getting used to, but he adds value to every discussion. Having him here will raise the level of conversation. I say that even though I don't buy into his views on leasing (he holds the Guiness record for number of Audis leased consecutively) or AWD (he seems to think that AWD is better even when the car is parked with the engine turned off). He wouldn't be here if the CTS didn't genuinely interest him. He's certainly not here to lob bombs.
One more thing. I've been a regular here at Edmunds for almost 9 years, & I've noticed that folks always get more worked up over not-yet-introduced cars than they do over cars that are actually in showrooms now. This seems to be a law of the universe. Maybe it's because when an argument gets started, it can't be settled in the usual ways: by taking a test drive or referring to a recent C&D or R&T road test. (Or maybe it's because these discussions attract an above-average number of 13-year-olds. Who knows?) So the discussion turns hot & silly & stays that way until a host steps in or the participants lose interest. Why fight over the interior trim quality (or lack of same) of a car that's months away from the showroom? It's absolutely pointless.
For the record: I'm a satisfied BMW (330i, sports package, stick) owner who's happy to see that the absurdly small number of RWD luxury sport sedans that can be had with manual transmissions is about to increase. I don't know if there's a CTS in my future -- I won't be in the market again until 2009 - but I like what I see & I hope it's a home run for GM.
#568 of 2880 Re: ... [jimbres]
Feb 09, 2007 (8:25 am)
I dont know anything about markcincinnati but I disagree that he has added anything to the discussion. He isnt impressed by the CTS relative to the competition and that is fine, but how many times do we have to read the same thing? We get it, the CTS is a generation behind the competition and is a lame attempt by Cadillac to lead the entry luxury sedan segment. He is getting repetative and annoying. If he feels the CTS isnt up to pay he doesnt not have to buy the car. Get a BMW 335 and call it a day.
#569 of 2880 Re: ... [markcincinnati]
Feb 09, 2007 (8:35 am)
I dont know who you are arguing with at this point. For pricing reasons alone the CTS is unlikely to be cross shopped with the 5 series and E class. It will be much cheaper and will most likely be competing with the compact luxury Europans and G35/TL. NO one here disputes this fact so I dont get your obsession with convincing us the CTS isnt a true midsize luxury sedan competitor. In terms of size, power and features it COULD be compared to a 535 or E350. It's that simple. Since it's in a different price class most buyers wont see the CTS as a 535 competitor but it's a realistic comparison based on the merits of both cars. You havent stated why this comparison wouldnt be valid. The CTS will have the space, features and power found in the 528/535 but will most often be cross shopped with the 3 series.
Also, you keep referring to this 6th place finish in C&D but the CTS was the 2nd oldest car in that test and thus finished 6th. As I already noted, it finished FIRST in a R&T comparison when it was newer vs the 530, 300, S80, A6, etc. YOu never responded to that. Any car that is near the end of it's lifecycle is bound to finish near the bottom of a comparion because it lacks power and features.
"Comparing the CTS to the cars above its class -- until we know more that would permit such a comparison -- is akin to the Hyundai claims that their flagship is "roomier" than a BMW 7 series. Most folks would not accept the notion that the Hyundai was a competitor to the BMW simply based on its interior volume, trunk space or other measurements of cubic feet. "
That statement is laughable. We are comparing the CTS to the 535, E350, etc. based on size, performance and luxury features. As someone stated, why dont you tell us what the car is lacking compared to those vehicles. We already know most people wont compare the CTS to those cars, but they wouldnt be crazy to do so. The Azera doesnt have half the features found on the 7 series and it's nowhere near the same class of vehicle. That analogy was poor.
Feb 09, 2007 (11:33 am)
The CTS according to some professional reviewers (and me, even though I am an amateur) IS a generation behind its direct competition. The 2008 CTS will catch up apparently. It does not move ahead of its competition (the ELLPS) and it almost certainly will remain a generation behind the current LPS incumbents' 2008 versions. Yet, so what? The CTS is not an LPS car, the A4 and G35, ditto -- these ELLPS cars, too, are likely to be a generation behind their LPS siblings. No harm no foul.
The CTS, I contend, needs to differentiate itself or move ahead of its rivals in order to regain the standard of the world designation it seems to be striving for.
The strategy of GM isn't to make a better car. They want to do what Toyota did to them 20 years ago. Build a comparable car that in no way stands out from the rest except in reliability and lower cost. It's a very smart plan, IMO. You get peolpe who are lokoing at the de-contented and plasticky E class now - they sure *will* cross-shop the new CTS, especially in the Midwest, where there is still a nagging voice in the back of their heads saying "buy American".
If the CTS consistently got 4th place out of 8 cars in every test for driving but was $10K less money - by far the least expensive - you can bet it would get a recommendation in most magazines. Entry-level gives a huge bias towards being, well, affordable to peolpe who are lookig to step up. And $40-50K for a Volvo or Audi or BMW because they want a luxury car that's not the size of a Civic or 3 series(the 3 isn't really useable for a family, for instance)... It's just a hard pill for many to swallow, even if they can do so. They'd much rather find somethng for $35K and save the money.
Btw, a base 2007 CTS is just at $28K. The new ones will be about $32-34K to start, according to the dealer I talked to today. Cloth seats, no nav, 6-speed gearbox... but with that nice 3.6VVT engine and the better interior. Looks very attractive to me.
CarsDirect Price: $28,327 - including delivery. No incentives, financing, or rebates currently. I don't se how the base 2008 is going to be that much more expensive. Certainly not 40k+ as some of the detractors are saying it will be.
#571 of 2880 Re: ... 
Feb 09, 2007 (11:42 am)
Speaking as a 13 year old with 33 years experience, I don't believe Mark has reached the age where practicality trumps status. He may subscribe to Cleopatra's definition of luxury: dissolving pearls in wine and drinking them. One reason M-B and others have been able to sell small, uncomfortable, and sometimes unreliable cars successfully is that everyone knows they are very expensive to own. Cadillac hasn't been able to do that, and I hope they never do.
I've never been able to understand the allure of an imported product, and I suspect people who feel it cannot be cured. One of my former neighbors had such a bad time with his 300D, the dealer gave him a full price credit on a new one, and later the idiot bought a third one.
#572 of 2880 Re: ... [plekto]
Feb 09, 2007 (11:50 am)
Some people are gizmo freaks and load their cars up with options just to say it's loaded.
Remember the 2007 base has the smaller engine and vinyl; the 3.6L starts about 33k.
Do you have any actual information they're offering cloth seats? Right now, they offer them only in Middle East 2.8L CTS's and not US ones. This is important to me because I much prefer cloth.
Feb 09, 2007 (11:54 am)
Well, that's what the dealer said - that the base model will have cloth seats since everyone hated the vinyl and kept requesting cloth.
I suspect that the price won't be much different, or maybe a slight bit less to keep that bottom-end as close to 30K as possible. Cloth is an easy way to save some money in a non-critical area that doesn't destroy the interior.
Personally I don't like the cheap leather anyways - it's not REAL full-thickness leather, either, so why pay the money, especially when you know it's just going to get stains on it from the kids and such?
#574 of 2880 Re: CTS [plekto]
Feb 09, 2007 (12:25 pm)
That's very good news to me. I don't remember any mention of cloth in the press release, but they were careful to avoid saying the dash was leather (could be an option). Cadillac hasn't offered cloth in the US since 1999.
My beef with leather is ventilation, pun intended. I can't wear synthetics without puddling. I've never tried perforated leather or the new ventilated seats--I wonder if they're discussed in a thread here.
I suspect thicker leather wouldn't be very showroom-soft, but it would hold up better. Cracked leather is uglier and harder to fix than dirty cloth.
It's going to be hard to get one of these at MSRP for a while, much less a discount.
#575 of 2880 Re: CTS [plekto]
Feb 09, 2007 (12:31 pm)
since everyone hated the vinyl
So, is that to say the 2007 CTS has two different seating materials, leather and vinyl, or that it only offers the vinyl?