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Sedans Cadillac CTS/CTS-V 2008 Cadillac CTS
2757 messages, Last post on Oct 09, 2009 at 8:13 PM
You are in the Cadillac CTS/CTS-V Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Why is there no CTS between the 3.6 DI at just over 300 HP, but only 273 TQ and the CTS-v at 500+ HP & TQ?? Or [ perhaps more relevant ] why shouldn’t there be? Particularly with the demise of the ‘other’ V8 RWD GM Sport Sedan – the G8 GT that I now drive – there really seems to be an opportunity here for Caddy to further expand the CTS line. And generate more sales – in a segment that they appear to be aiming at: The Premium Sport Sedan market. I firmly believe that a CTS with the upgraded wheel & tire package and suspension upgrades [ as available on the ‘regular’ CTS ] with either the corporate 6.0L or 6.2L V8 and 6L80 automatic trans. and a price between the top \ ‘fully loaded’ CTS and the CTS-v would sell. And not be immensely expensive or time-consuming to develop, engineer & start producing. A fully loaded [ everything except AWD ] CTS is almost $53K. [ See below ] . . but, it seems to me that a well equipped, performance oriented [ and minus sunroof & navigation system ] CTS at just under $50K plus a real “American” V8 – but still priced well below the CTS-v, would actually sell quite well. The price gap between that ‘performance oriented’ CTS  $49K-ish and the CTS-v at $61K is [ obviously ] about $12K. And I expect that a [ relatively ] off-the-shelf drivetrain transplant \ upgrade to a 360 HP 6.0L V8 or 400 HP 6.2L V8 and big TQ could be accomplished with [ again, relatively ] minimal effort. And an MSRP bump of no more than $5K or $6K. And the result of implanting a normally aspirated V8 into the CTS ought to be a very quick [ noticeably quicker than the CTS V6 DI that I test drove ] & well-balanced RWD performance sedan. With some level of sophistication - above my G8 GT. It would likely require a lower GGT than the CTS-v, would deliver better ‘real world’ gas mileage. I believe that it could have an MSRP of $54K to $55K - and an actual transaction price around $52K or $53K. The 2010 BMW 550i [ V8, 360 HP ] MSRP w/dest. = just over $61K. Would this constitute a ‘cut rate BMW’? Regardless - This would seriously interest ME. [ For one. ] As an eventual replacement for my G8 GT . . . Someone tell me the flaw[s] in this idea? YMMV. - Ray Happy, for now, with the G8 GT - but . . . = = = 2010 Cadillac CTS Premium 4dr Sedan (3.6L 6cyl 6A) + Y43 Summer Tire Performance Pkg & destination = approx. $52,800.
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Replying to: rayainsw (Oct 01, 2009 5:14 am)
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Replying to: kplacer (Oct 01, 2009 5:54 pm) though BMW [ the apparent 'target' here ] certainly seems to do just fine with 2 different 6 cylinder 5 series sedans, a V8 [ comparable to the GM LS2 \ LS3 ] and an M5... - Ray NOT a Marketing Genius.....
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Replying to: rayainsw (Oct 02, 2009 3:21 am)
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Replying to: dmathews3 (Oct 02, 2009 4:08 am) True enough. I don’t believe that any of the Detroit 3 can do anything for less than millions. OTOH: The development costs for the CTS-v, MSRP only [ only? ] about $12K over the loaded \ performance oriented CTS, must have been many, many millions. For a much more limited market than I see for a n/a V8 CTS such as I am proposing. My point is that the R&D costs for this would be MUCH smaller than they were for the CTS-v. Production costs would clearly be much lower than the CTS-v, as well. So GM \ Caddy ought to be able to actually fatten margins here. If GM needs anything [ nearly ] as much as increased sales, seems to me that is: Stopping the erosion of margins. The coupe & wagon versions of the CTS likely also cost way more than this would cost. I just think that those who really want a BMW M5 killer will still buy the CTS-v. I seriously doubt there would be much, if any, cannibalization of sales here from the CTS-v. But those who want more HP & TQ than that DI V6 – [ not a bad motor, but does not provide quick acceleration & certainly does not provide the effortless delivery of low end TQ that many prefer ] but who really don’t need the CTS-v’s 12 second quarter mile times and they would be pleased to give up a significantly smaller incremental loss in MPG, compared to the CTS-v & they would be happy to pay a much smaller GGT - in order to drive something like my hypothetical n/a V8 “CTS GT”. It would offer much better acceleration than any V6 CTS, and not nearly as much increase in cost as the step up to a CTS-v. My sense is that the top line DI V6 CTS [ again, I consider it a nice car & good effort by Caddy ] just is not capable of delivering the acceleration typically expected by many [ including me ] of a $40K+ Luxury Sport Sedan. The fuel economy difference is actually a significant portion of the ‘business case’ I’d make here. CTS DI auto = 18 \ 27 CTS-v auto = 12 \ 18 My ** GUESS ** is that a CTS GT could likely be closer to G8 GT or Camaro SS \ V8 automatic levels: Camaro SS automatic = 16 \ 25. My G8 GT = 15 \ 24. That would be rather noticeably better [ 25% better for city and 33%+ better for hiway ] than the CTS-v. That’s a lot, seems to me. This would also bring Caddy more nearly into line with the scope of GM \ Chevy’s Camaro – versions with V6, V8 and [ it now appears likely, in a couple of years ] a ‘Top Gun’ version = supercharged V8, likely to be called the Z28. In addition to BMW [ see above ] Mercedes offers 6 cylinder versions of their comparably sized sedans, a normally aspirated V8, and an [ AMG branded ] Super Sedan. If Caddy’s strategy for their sedans is Sport \ Performance, as well as Luxury – then I just think they ought to do something like this – to complete the CTS line’s powertrain offerings. And I do think a realistic business case could be made. YMMV. - Ray No, certainly NOT holding my breath . . . |
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Replying to: rayainsw (Oct 01, 2009 5:14 am) Another alternative would be making a turbo version of the 3.6 engine. You could probably hop that up to 400 HP and get better mileage than the Chevy V8. But the MPG difference might not offset the price increase that engine would cost over the Chevy smallblock. Could either scenario happen? Sure. Will it happen? I dunno....odds are against it right now. |
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I just received the '09 navigation system update disk for my '08 CTS. Here's the rub; when I tried to use the disk to update my nav system it asked for an authorization code before it would begin the update. There was no authorization code anywhere on the disk, in the case or on the shipping papers. I called Helm, the company that ships the disk for GM. They plead ignorance of anything other than collecting cash and shipping. I called the dealer, their tech said he knew nothing of an authorization code. I am leaving on a extended trip from L.A. to Austin Texas this weekend, so I will not be able to do anything until I return, as even if I find out what to do, with a three hour estimated update time I will not risk a system failure while I am out of town on a trip. If anyone has had experience with this, or knows anything about this, I would appreciate any information you can provide about the mysterious authorization code, or how to obtain it, or whom to contact about it. |
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