Last post on Mar 14, 2013 at 9:16 AM
You are in the Cadillac CTS/CTS-V
What is this discussion about?
Cadillac CTS-V, Cadillac CTS, Sedan
#2204 of 2880 Re: rental CTS [rayainsw]
Mar 18, 2008 (10:19 am)
CTS quarter mile times [ DI \ 304HP ]
C+D = 14.6 97
R&T = 14.5 98.2
Currently, to be \ to feel rewarding to me, in the acceleration department, I really “need” something quicker than 14.0. While I certainly did not expect “Corvette level” acceleration ( or anything else, dynamically ) even the DI \ 304HP version would just not be quick enough. For me. YMMV.
C+D’s recent ‘Short Take Road Test’ of the CTS w/the base engine:
“Down 46 horses and 20 pound-feet on the DI engine, the indirectly injected base mill still brings a hearty portion of power with 258 horsepower and 253 pound-feet of torque. With the test gear strapped on, our six-speed automatic CTS managed a 7.0-second 0-to-60-mph romp en route to a 15.4-second quarter-mile at 91 mph. The more powerful uplevel engine (with a six-speed manual) achieves the same marks in 5.8 and 14.6 seconds at 97 mph.”
And: “From the driver's seat, an extra 1.2 seconds in a full-throttle blast to 60 are glaringly obvious, but in more measured driving, the difference between the two engines is purely statistical. Both sound fantastic for V-6s, both pull hard all the way to their 7000-rpm redlines without noticeable straining, and both have sufficient power for commuter duty.”
The ‘problem’ for me is that I am certain that I would miss that acceleration – in my [ um ] ‘spirited’ driving. And in a car weighing close to 4,000 pounds, I also strongly prefer the relatively effortless acceleration at less than WOT that is typically provided by a V8 with ( much more ) torque. But that’s just my personal preference. C+D refers to a lack of “carefree passing power” in the base engine. I’d second that. And the upcoming CTS-v appears to be the only V8 CTS on the horizon. [ sigh ]
Again, I want to be clear here, I mean absolutely no disrespect to the CTS. A mid-14 second quarter mile capable sedan is likely all anyone actually needs. In fact, a mid-15 second quarter mile sedan like the CTS with ‘base engine’ is likely just fine – for most people, most of the time. I only use the term “need” here in the context of what I require for entertainment purposes.
The CTS does have gizmos. It has interesting interior styling. The exterior styling, I find much more attractive than the previous generation CTS. It is just not the car for me, at this time.
And even with a V8, the trans. [mis-]behavior I referred to above would drive me nuts. I am hoping that this is unique to the Caddy & the 6L50 – as my ‘short list’ includes one with a 6L80.
I am hoping that I will be able to buy a sport sedan with the kind of acceleration I am looking for ( not Corvette acceleration, I readily acknowledge ), and a few amenities, for less than the price of a BMW 550i.
We shall see . . .
Still In Search Of . . .
#2205 of 2880 Re: rental CTS [rayainsw]
Mar 18, 2008 (3:44 pm)
Thing 1: In my Corvette, once in a gear ( fourth or fifth or sixth, for example, on the freeway ) it will NOT downshift without a manual request. Ever. The CTS will downshift based on throttle position – even in ‘manual’ mode. Often shifting down one or 2 or 3 gears. Weird. And not ‘manual’, by my definition. Not exactly sure what GM is thinking here – though I have experienced something similar in a couple of BMW 3s, with their Steptronic automatic.
Thing 2: If accelerating at ( or close to ) WOT, commands to upshift are ignored. Again, my Corvette will do as told. And again, I have seen this behavior in BMW 3s. Weird. Both these odd ( to me ) choices in the programming of the automatic are counter-intuitive to me. And I dislike them both. A lot.
If you are such an enthusiast, you deserve to treat yourself to the available manual. It totally changes the character of the car. It's quicker to rev, snappier between gears(because you can rev it harder), and has 0 junk in the way. Even the base model with manual is, IMO, better than the DI with automatic, it's such a difference.
#2206 of 2880 manual trans. Re: rental CTS [plekto]
Mar 18, 2008 (5:10 pm)
“If you are such an enthusiast, you deserve to treat yourself to the available manual.”
Bursitis means that anything with a clutch would no longer be possible, for me . . .
All I am really asking \ expecting here is that the maunmatic function do as I say. Unless drivetrain damage will result, shift when I tell you – and do not otherwise shift.
And I know that GM can do this – has done this.
Guilty of being an enthusiast . . .
#2207 of 2880 Re: manual trans. Re: rental CTS [rayainsw]
Mar 19, 2008 (7:46 am)
If I understand what you said about your Corvette, it is possible to come to a stop in manual mode in 6th gear and then start off in 6th gear. Somehow I think that will eventually cause damage to the torque converter and transmission from overheating the oil.
My SRX has the 6 speed automatic (V8) and will not upshift if the current speed to deemed too low. It will downshift as the speed decreases. If you demand a lot of power in 6th it will downshift (probably to 3rd or 4th). What I would like is for it to return to the higher gear automatically but once it downshifts automatically you have to upshift manually. I use the normal D mode except for holding on steep hills usually.
#2208 of 2880 unclear, I was... Re: manual trans. Re: rental CTS [sls002]
Mar 19, 2008 (8:28 am)
“If I understand what you said about your Corvette, it is possible to come to a stop in manual mode in 6th gear and then start off in 6th gear. Somehow I think that will eventually cause damage to the torque converter and transmission from overheating the oil. “
In manual mode, the trans. in my Corvette does downshift as one slows.
All the way to second gear.
It downshifts only when the road speed would result in the engine RPM being too low \ slow to effectively pull the weight of the car, even with full TCC unlock.
You are certainly correct in that with sixth gear ( a second overdrive ) and a final drive ratio of 2.56:1, starting in sixth would not be a good thing. It is perfectly happy staring in first ( obviously ), second or third gear.
It will never downshift based only on throttle position.
And it will always respond to an upshift command, again assuming that road speed makes such a shift ‘reasonable’.
Who did test drive a BMW ( 535i ? ) in the early 1990s that did NOT downshift when slowing – resulting in rather slow acceleration, until I realized what was happening . . .
Edit . . .
From the C6 manual:
The vehicle speeds required for Manual Paddle Shift up-shifts depend on several vehicle inputs, which will vary the allowed up-shift speed by a few mph (km/h).
• Up-shifts to fourth (4) gear require approximately
22 mph (35 km/h)
• Up-shifts to fifth (5) gear require approximately
28 mph (45 km/h)
• Up-shifts to sixth (6) gear require approximately
41 mph (65 km/h)”
These are approximately the speeds at which the trans will downshift, when slowing the vehicle. From sixth to fifth at around 40 MPH, etc.
#2209 of 2880 Re: unclear, I was... Re: manual trans. Re: rental CTS [rayainsw]
Mar 19, 2008 (10:47 am)
I see. My SRX in 6th does about 40 MPH per 1000 RPMs. The engine likes to run at about 1200 RPMs minimum in any gear, but the torque converter may be slipping too.
#2210 of 2880 Re: rental CTS [plekto]
Mar 19, 2008 (2:06 pm)
I had heard that the manual transmission is kind of clunky and not easily maneuverable. I can't find a dealer that has one to test-drive (not that I'm in the market now anyway), but if your experience differs, please explain.
Mar 20, 2008 (12:27 pm)
I just visited the Cary Auto Mall here in NC. I went to see the new Jaguar XF. I came away disappointed. It does look very nice, a huge improvement on the S-Type. But when I stepped back from it, the overall shape was a little bland. Not nearly as sexy and curvy as the XK.
Then I crossed the street to the Caddy dealer. I had never liked the previous CTS, just on style. The profile was awkward and slabby and looked like it had been designed by an entirely different team from the team that did the front and back. And the center stack was terrible.
The new CTS has a great shape, just the right amount of fender bulge. I like the combination of straight edges and curves. The Performance wheels were gorgeous. I still don't like the cattle-catcher front end, but I can live with it. The back end is a little cluttered, but not too bad.
The interior, here in black and wood, was gorgeous. Just the right size for me at 6'0". The only bit I didn't like was the silver plastic on the center stack. It looks cheap and I don't think it will wear wll. I think real aluminum is in order here.
I took a DI Performance for a quick drive. The pick-up was more than enough for me. I drive a Miata and a BMW 325 with sport package so I have high demands for handling. The Caddy didn't disappointment. The steering was nicely balanced with crisp turn-in and the suspension was outstanding in it's ability to manage the car's weight without being harsh on the highway. It felt like a good deal less than 4k lbs. I was very impressed at the CTS's ability to perform without giving up refinement and highway ride. My only complaint from the drive is that the Performance tires were fairly loud.
The CTS is now on my short list for a new sedan this fall or next spring.
#2212 of 2880 First drive by kdawg69
Mar 20, 2008 (1:21 pm)
Tires aren't a big problem. I always take my new cars to Discount Tire which is like a Bell tire and they pretty much give me what the tires are worth on what I want. Makes for a good deal plus for $4 a tire I get a life time warranty for any reason. If it can't be patched then they put on a new tire without any mileage adjustment. Plus they fix all flats and rotate and rebalance anytime I want for free.
#2213 of 2880 Re: Universal Home Remote [nathess]
Mar 22, 2008 (7:41 am)
I finally got a "Universal Home Remote" (garage door opener) for my 2008 CTS. I wanted the unit to add to my overhead console but GM refused to sell it to me. They finally sold me an entire overhead console with the unit to replace my existing console for a cost of $450.
GM knows how to develop poor customer relations.