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Sedans Mercedes-Benz E-Class Luxury Lounge
21520 messages, Last post on Dec 08, 2009 at 10:26 AM
You are in the Mercedes-Benz E-Class Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: smarty666 (Nov 05, 2009 6:03 pm) In many cases that's true, though there are plenty of examples where it is not. The Mazda3 for example is built in Mazda's Hiroshima plant, and has been very reliable. The Mazda6 comes from Flat Rock MI, and doesn't have a great record. The CX-7 and CX-9 though are both built in Japan, and both have terrible quality records. The Japanese built 2005 Acura RL had loads of electrical problems, and the earliest cars were sent to dealers without the AWD system diff fluid in place, which lead to the system completely locking up. The worst new car introduction in Lexus' history in terms of quality was the Japanese built '06 GS300 AWD. The '07 ES350 also shared the transmission problems of the '07 Camry V6, despite being built in Japan. The previous gen Infiniti G35s that burned through their brake rotors after 10K miles were also Japanese built. The average Japanese assembled car will probably have fewer rattles, tighter gaps, etc. than the average NA assembled car from a Japanese brand, but there's certainly no guarantee of getting a flawless car just because it came from Japan.
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Replying to: m4d_cow (Nov 06, 2009 6:10 am) If the only difference is the styling, then pick the one that looks better. The Fusion/Milan twins for example are almost identical except for their grilles, lights, and a couple of trim pieces. I hate the Fusion's enormous razor blade grille, so I'd go with a Milan. The so called "Saabaru" was not identical to a WRX. If I remember correctly, it had things like leather seats, automatic climate control, and an automatic transmission. The vast majority of WRXes out there are going to have cloth seats and sticks. |
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Replying to: lexusguy (Nov 06, 2009 8:30 am) even as you said, Lexus is not immune to this: I have two family members who both have ES350s: both were made in the Japanese plant but one is having all kinds of quality and technical problems, much like I did with my TL, while the other family member has absolutely no problems with their ES350 whats so ever I've been reading on the RX350 blogs that the new 2010 RX has had some quality issues: I know some are made in Japan and others in Canada but regardless of where they were built, people have commented on problems with the front fender loosing up and either forming a gap with the headlights or has fallen off completely: also some issues with interior panels and technology, namely the nav system, sat radio, and climate control functions not working properly so I think it is a hit or a miss, but as I've mentioned I think your chances are better in regards to quality control, build/assembly quality from the vehicles that are made in the Japanese plants then they are in Canadian or American plants
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Replying to: smarty666 (Nov 06, 2009 8:38 am) This is partly why I've gone back to German cars. When I bought my first Lexus back in '96, the Japanese, especially Lexus, were miles ahead of Germany in both reliability and technology. Today, Japan's technological advantage is gone, and in many areas they are behind the Germans. Some Lexus models still come with cassette decks! There's still a reliability gap, but its far smaller than it used to be. In the '90s, a new Lexus was pretty much guaranteed to be flawless, which made up for the lack of styling and character. That just isn't the case anymore, and thus I've totally lost interest in Lexus. Acuras are now the ugliest cars on the road, and their interiors are still full of the same cheap plastic and fake wood and aluminum trim that have kept them out of the real luxury arena. IMO, Infiniti is the only one with interesting products. They've had their own problems with low grade interiors throughout most of their existence, but the EX35 started to change that, and the 2011 M finally has to make absolutely no excuses for its design or interior quality. The Germans are launching their latest assault on the mid-lux class over the next two years, and most likely only the M will be able to challenge them. |
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Replying to: lexusguy (Nov 06, 2009 2:29 pm) Regards, OW |
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Replying to: lexusguy (Nov 06, 2009 2:29 pm) I'm actually looking forward to the ditching of cd players as well. I know no one who has bought a cd in years. I would loved to have my car nix the entire 6 in dash cd player & put the MMI controls in it's place, away from the cup holders. I like the ipod connection in the glove box out of the way, just wish the 'drawer' for it wasn't so cheaply made. LG, I know it just came out, but any opinion on the Droid that dropped today? I read many reviews of it's flaws, but the common conclusion was it's the best phone Verizon has available. & to keep it on topic, is a new phone like this compatible with Audi bluetooth, or would that take a software upgrade?
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Replying to: lexusguy (Nov 06, 2009 2:29 pm) And I'd say that it depends on what German car we're talking about. A minimally equipped BMW - no factory nav, for example, because the Germans still aren't good at marrying sophisticated electronics & high performance mechanicals - is acceptably reliable, but I still wouldn't buy an Audi with your money. Someone, perhaps you, defended Audi by saying that they turned a corner in 2005, but for me that's not a terribly convincing claim. Since I don't lease & won't buy a car that I can't keep for at least 8 years, I'd have to wait until 2013 at the earliest to see if the good news about Audi really is true. I know loads of people who drive Japanese cars that are 8+ years old, & I myself drive an 8-year-old BMW, but I don't know a soul who drives an Audi that's nearly that old. In fact, I don't know anyone who owns - as opposed to leases - an Audi, so it's hard not to suspect that Audi builds cars to be leased & disposed of, not to be purchased & kept. Why should this surprise anyone? We know that not all Japanese cars are equal - that Suzukis aren't built to Honda or Toyota standards - so why should we expect that an Audi will be as reliable over the long haul as a BMW? At the end of the day, I have to go along with a conclusion that Forbes drew a few years ago in an article about the global auto industry: the Germans may build the world's best cars but the Japanese build the world's best car factories.
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Replying to: jimbres (Nov 06, 2009 6:00 pm) You make some fair points but some people might feel that enjoying the overall experience of the car over an 8+ year (or any) timeframe may be as important if not more so than just hoping that you've chosen the most reliable brand. I traded in an 8 year old BMW earlier this year as even though it only had 40,000 miles it was really becoming a problem over the past few years (I traded it for another car that may not be the most reliable, but it is a great car to enjoy). I also have a 2008 BMW which has low miles and as much as the car is fun to drive, I have already found too many compromises that were made with this car. As much I love German cars, I would not buy any of them if reliability over an 8+ year ownership experience was the main concern. Honda/Toyota would probably still fit that need a bit better.
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Replying to: clembo (Nov 07, 2009 4:48 am) That's why I'm keenly interested in the upcoming 2011 Infiniti M. If it can deliver 90+% of the driving pleasure of a comparable German car together with the level of reliability that we associate with a top-tier Japanese brand, it might just be my next car. I'd go for a G37 if I had to replace my BMW tomorrow. While I *like* cars, I no longer love them, & my obsessive car nut days are way behind me. So, yes, reliability is key. |
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Replying to: jimbres (Nov 07, 2009 6:12 am)  My BMW days are over (at the moment). But I am looking at Hyundai as a up and coming player that screams value at the same time. Haven't tested any yet but the products and marketing from that company shows in the recent sales results better than any other. No formal luxo brand yet but it seems they are working on it. Regards, OW
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