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22204 messages,  Last post on Jun 02, 2013 at 8:18 PM

You are in the Mercedes Benz S-Class Sedan Forum.

What is this discussion about? BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Lexus, Volvo, Porsche, Jaguar, Audi, Maserati, Maybach, Car Comparisons, Coupe, Convertible, Sedan

Messages Page 2217 of 2221

#22155 of 22204 A7 by dssxxxx

Apr 08, 2011 (5:48 am)

Looks great..............exactly the same as my A8 except the volume control is on the right instead of the left.............
 
Too bad they lowered the height 3".

#22156 of 22204 Re: A7 [dssxxxx] by plekto

Apr 08, 2011 (11:19 am)

Replying to: dssxxxx (Apr 08, 2011 5:48 am)
Perhaps a better comparison would be kind of like how the Jaguar XK is essentially essentially a upper-middle class man's Aston Martin. ie - This shares a lot of DNA with the Panamera. But for less money, less snobbish factor, and without the hideous rear end. It's a win-win-win situation.
 
If you think of it in this light, it's clear why it's 3 inches lower and looks like it does. Now Audi has two world-class cars - and this one isn't priced at stupidly high levels like the R8 is.
 
Oh - Top Gear's review of it says that the ride is pretty much not a factor. In a good way, that is. It does everything except for make you excited on track days/have that supercar rush. Myself, I love that sort of understated and yet supremely confident feel that you get from cars like this. Volvo used to be the epitome of this type of ride years ago, and for me, that's the right balance between performance and luxury. But I suspect that a slightly louder exhaust kit would solve it if you really want to make some noise.

#22157 of 22204 Re: A7 [dssxxxx] by james27

Apr 08, 2011 (3:16 pm)

Replying to: dssxxxx (Apr 08, 2011 5:48 am)
Those 3" are exactly the reason why I ended up with a BMW 535 GT, it was one of the few cars that actually had some decent headroom. I'll put up with that rather than having to cock my head into the sunroof well!

#22158 of 22204 Re: A7 [james27] by plekto

Apr 08, 2011 (6:11 pm)

Replying to: james27 (Apr 08, 2011 3:16 pm)
Of course, given the seating angles (it's quite low in the Panamera) your head won't touch the ceiling anyways. For anyone under 6'2", it'll be fine. And a lot cheaper than the base Panamera.
 
Plus, what's not to like about a V6 with a big supercharger on it? Thank you thank you thank you for not putting a whiny little turbo on it, Audi. Since it has a better transmission than the base Panamera (8 vs 7 gears), and weighs a bit less, it gets to 60mph in about half a second quicker as well. IMO, there's no reason to actually buy the base Panamera instead of this.

#22159 of 22204 Re: A7 [plekto] by james27

Apr 08, 2011 (6:21 pm)

Replying to: plekto (Apr 08, 2011 6:11 pm)
Ah, but I am taller than 6' 2", and don't like to sit leaning way back, which makes it even worse!

#22160 of 22204 Re: A7 [james27] by tlong

Apr 08, 2011 (7:01 pm)

Replying to: james27 (Apr 08, 2011 3:16 pm)
Those 3" are exactly the reason why I ended up with a BMW 535 GT, it was one of the few cars that actually had some decent headroom.
 
I hear the Scion xB has a lot of headroom, too.

#22161 of 22204 Re: A7 [tlong] by james27

Apr 08, 2011 (9:43 pm)

Replying to: tlong (Apr 08, 2011 7:01 pm)
But I thought this was the LUXURY lounge...
 
It really frosts me that some of the nice cars are only available here (in the USA) with a sunroof, and that can take as much as 3 or more inches out of the headroom. On an A6 I owned awhile ago, you could still order it without, and the difference was 2.85" extra headroom. Personally, I can easily live without a sunroof...higher insurance, higher center of gravity, more sources of squeaks, less torsional rigidity, and more expensive (in Germany, the GT's sunroof is optional at 1700 Euros...an amount I'd much prefer spending on other things!). Mercedes had the sunroof 'optional' for awhile, their 'base' price was lower than some comperables, and the salesman told me all sorts of people came in and complained, 'but it's standard on X'; not associating that their base price was inflated because of it. As a nation, we are pretty poor about understanding this sort of thing...too bad. I much prefer the old way where you could cherry pick the items you want, especially, if the manufacturer allows that in their home market (i.e., Germany). While you can get packages, and it can save money if you want most of it, it's really annoying to spend say $2000 to get one thing that's available in their home market for $200, and you could easily live without the others. The hassle here is many of those brands are only marketed as 'luxury' cars, where they, with less content, are sometimes a commodity vehicle in the home market, except when optioned out with all sorts of really nice stuff. On most, we can't buy it without leather, for example, and on most of the mid-size cars like the A6, 5xx, and Exxx, it's optional in the home market, and, you can get it in an ecconomical 4-cylinder engine...it still is built well, but costs maybe 10's of thousands less. So, you get what you pay for. Here, we're too stuck up, expecting the cache of the brand to only represent certain things. It would just be too much for someone to have a neighbor with a car that looked the same on the outside to cost $25K less than yours...we're just stuck up...

#22162 of 22204 Re: A7 [james27] by tlong

Apr 08, 2011 (10:13 pm)

Replying to: james27 (Apr 08, 2011 9:43 pm)
It really frosts me that some of the nice cars are only available here (in the USA) with a sunroof, and that can take as much as 3 or more inches out of the headroom.
 
Can you custom order without a sunroof and go European delivery with Audi, BMW, or MB?

#22163 of 22204 Re: A7 [tlong] by plekto

Apr 09, 2011 (1:25 am)

Replying to: tlong (Apr 08, 2011 10:13 pm)
Actually, yes. There are a number of changes that you can get via European delivery that aren't on the web sites and so on. I've heard of custom colors, upgraded leather, and all sorts of other things as well for some extra money. As well as things like being able to delete a sunroof, get cloth seats, and even sometimes get a manual that's not normally available (or often simply not ordered by dealers in the U.S., even though it is technically offered somewhere in their forms.)
 
Plus, the interesting this in most European delivery programs are almost the same price as buying it locally and you get to be pampered for a day, tour the factory, and see Europe for a few days or longer. They're hoping to get a bit of kickback from the tourist packages the agencies they have deals with, of course.

#22164 of 22204 Re: A7 [tlong] by james27

Apr 09, 2011 (3:32 pm)

Replying to: tlong (Apr 08, 2011 10:13 pm)
Unless you may be in-country when you order and purchase the car (diplomatic sales), you are buying the car from the US arm, even though you are picking it up in Germany. There are certain options (with BMW at least) that you can only order on the car (i.e., the dealer can't order them that way for their stock - they have to be assigned to an actual end user customer), but after multiple requests, the US arm of BMW refuses to sell a vehicle with 'deleted' standard equipment (as defined by the US arm). I know, I've tried. IOW, they will NOT sell the GT without a sunroof in the US.
 
I wrote a letter to Mercedes and had the local dealer ask on an E-class, and no they would not build one for US certification without a sunroof. Also had the AUdi dealer check, and (at least on the models I was interested in, no). On that car, at least in the current models, the difference in headroom is huge, nearly 4" with and without the sunroof. I'd easily fit in that car without a sunroof, but with it, I'd not want to own it.
 
Now, maybe if you're talking like something in the Bently, RR, Aston, etc., yes, they'll bend over backwards, but not on the commodity vehicles (and no, I don't wish to spend anywhere near that much money on one of those). Got enough money, and all sorts of things can be done.
 
In Germany, for home market consumption, almost everything is a la cart. But, once it goes through one of their other country sales offices, they and the factory decide what is available. For example, the BMW UK branch treats the GT the same way as the US...the sunroof is standard equipment, but they have other things that are standard that are optional here (if even available). So, it is a country by country thing.
 
Without lots of work and extra money, with the EPA and safety requirments to bring a car into the US, it is not practical for the average person to buy a Euopean spec vehicle and expect to register and drive it in the US. Plus, the US branch won't honor the warranty of a grey market car, even if you could get it past the Feds.
 
It needs to be clear...when doing a European delivery, you are NOT buying it direct through the factory, you are still buying it through a US dealer, and it must meet the US arm's set of requirements. And, while there is a little more flexibility, it isn't really all that much. Maybe in the past, but not now.

Messages Page 2217 of 2221

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