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Sedans Luxury Lounge
21520 messages, Last post on Dec 08, 2009 at 10:26 AM
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Replying to: tagman (Nov 01, 2009 8:48 am) For the answer, you need to look at failure rates in the production process. Many issues are linked to disconnects between design and mfg. The U.S. auto industry continued to ignore and put off the quality inroads Asian mfgrs made on the small cars. It was easier to get quality incrementally improved on the simpler, smaller units. Later, when marquees such as Lexus, Infinity and Accura were introduced, the Quality systems already supported extremely low defect rates learned on the simpler models. Even the European manufacturers were untimely in addressing continuous improvements in quality in both design and content. VW is a parallel to GM, F and C afaic....sporadic at best. Until recently, BMW, Merc and Audi suffered the same perceptions which, at the end of the day, ARE reality. If it weren't for the Asian embracing quality as a competitive tool, we would not be seeing late improvement in the western auto companies. As was the case in Dewey's 335i example, one unit had multiple flaws and it seems to me the systems are not yet in place to catch/fix these problems ex-assembly line in most western companies as effectively as T or H does. They should have taken that abomination off the sales roster in Germany let alone suffer the extents of incompetent perceptions that are now burned into history and Dewey's perception of BMW. As for the reason for an individual lemon, it usually means a system-wide issue that allows the defects to pop up at a certain rate. IOW its not bottom up but top down thinking that allows this to continue. The Japanese work the other way around...from the ground up. Works much better if you ask me.  Regards, OW |
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Replying to: m4d_cow (Oct 31, 2009 11:44 pm) The original rear end of the C6 A6 was basically an evolution of the C5 model. The update brings it into line with Audi's current styling cues. I didn't quite get it at first, but after seeing a brand new A6 on the road, I think it looks great. It's one of those things that just doesn't work in pictures. What I'm very interested to see is how the interior turns out in the C7 car. The C6 was the debut of Audi's current interior design theme. The A8 got MMI first, but otherwise it was in the old Audi interior school. The new A6 and A8 will determine whether Audi is still king of interiors.
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Replying to: lexusguy (Nov 01, 2009 7:41 pm)  Tag: no kidding, 26 dealer visits. I'm not sure how or why. Perhaps it's related on which line a car is assembled at, like you said... though it brings out another problem: most manufacturing lines are automatic, so assuming the assembly line theory is true, just how many other lemons are out there? 
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Replying to: m4d_cow (Oct 31, 2009 11:55 pm) That was the wrong time to buy a Nissan. They were just starting to come back after the Altima saved them from total disaster, and quality was absolutely gutted on all levels to save every last penny. The Maximas also came from the new TN plant, which took a very long time to get its act together. The absolute worst offenders were the early Quests and Armadas, quality was so bad there it would make Land Rover blush. Nissan still isn't so hot quality wise, and neither is Mazda.
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Replying to: tagman (Nov 01, 2009 8:48 am) A combination of bad plants and bad design certainly enables the possibility of lemons. As I just mentioned in my last post, the quality of cars built at Nissan's Tennessee plant in the mid '00s was horrendous. When you cut corners at the design stage and the work is slipshod at the build stage, you're going to end up with lemons. Mercedes had similar problems with their Alabama plant, leading to a lot of lemon ML320s. In other instances, it's new technology that hasn't been tested well enough, which was the cause of most of Mercedes' headaches over the last decade. A single root cause could result in a lot of faults, as parts fail as a result of an initial failure. If a suspension system for example has some kind of problem in the design, it could lead to all kinds of issues. Or it may not be mechanical at all. Computers and software control tons of different sub-systems in luxury cars, and something as simple as bad software could lead to a lemon.
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2010 Aston Martin Rapide My ride in the Rapide, code named VH400 for Vertical-Horizontal 400-series, was supposed to be about the audio system, but I couldn't help notice the rest of the car. Yeah, the rear seat armrest was missing and the center console was taped up, but I did gather some interesting facts on what it's like to be in the car at speed. Most obvious? The Rapide feels and looks like a DB9. There is nothing that indicates the presence of expanded rear space. The rear seats are low, with enough leg room to be comfortable, but not to the extent of, say, a Lincoln Town Car. It's more like the passenger seat of a Honda S2000; I liken it to being coddled in performance. Clearly these are the rear seats of a sports sedan — not a luxury sedan. link title |
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Replying to: lexusguy (Nov 02, 2009 7:06 am) |
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Replying to: blkhemi (Oct 28, 2009 1:39 pm) Stories like this give me reassurance that I don't have to give up performance cars or performance driving just because I'm aging!  Here I'm only 38, yet I wonder if I'm getting too old to be dreaming of buying another Mustang GT and modding it up to near race levels.  (Performance racing, not drag racing.) I know, it's not a high end car! But let's face it. Not all of us want (or can afford) to buy 911s, M3s (and 911. Plus, that's where a good 60% of the fun comes from; modding it!  Anyways, I'm rambling. Back on point, it's nice to hear that old folks are still doin' it up behind the wheel! |
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Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 28, 2009 5:00 pm) What do you mean? I'm pretty sure they can. In fact, as I recall, some years back when C&D or Motor Trend tested the Ford GT, that was an owner's car. When the Enzo was tested, that was an owner's car. When the Carrera GT was tested, that was an owner's car. When the Continental GT was tested, that was an owner's car; an Iranian sheik, IIRC. Along with many more tests. They may not be able to always get them from the manufacturers, but they don't have problems getting the cars. As you can see, there are tons of supercar owners who have to problem lending their rides out to the mags for testing. Some enjoy it as they get a chance to see the performance abilities of their new toy; not to mention the bragging rights at the lodge to be able to tell the rest of the puff-&-fluff club, "Hey, that's my car in that review." |
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TM, in which experiments are you involved?  This is an e-mail received today from Nature Science Journal Group: Nature Publishing Group Asunto: At Last, a Convenient Alternative to TaqMan Oh, I know it was TaqMan. But before realizing it, I was sincerely astonished! Regards, Jose
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