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Sedans Luxury Lounge
21387 messages, Last post on Nov 25, 2009 at 8:11 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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During these past years I've heard endless rumours on how German auto marques are going to provide exciting green car offerings in North America. But the reality is that most German cars availabe for sale today in North America consume as much fuel as World War Two Panzers. I mean really what have they got there after all those years of green boasting? Audi--nothing! Porsche--nothing! BMW--large diesel engines that consume far more fuel than most of the BMWs offered in Europe. A EV Mini which is more of a PR fleet than something you can get at any dealer. A BMW 7 series hydrogen vehicle --how many are out there anyways? One, two, three, four or up to the number of fingers I have on both of my hands. Mercedes Benz---Blutec mainly in SUVs and the E Class. Good highway mileage, but nothing to get excited about if you are mainly an urban city road driver. VW--A Jetta diesel with sub-par mileage when compared to hybrid offerings Is that it? All this green bunk year after year and that is all that these firms can do in terms of their offerings? Now compare those German green offerings with Toyota and Honda. Big talk, no walk.
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I felt a pang of regret when I read the new 2010 Prius would not be a plug in lithium ion car. But now I have no regrets whatsoever after reading that today lithium ion batteries have a life-span of about three years and costs about $10K. Also the estimated mileage for a plug in Prius is about 68 vs. 51 for the non-plug in version. IMO Plug-ins at this stage are not even worth considering. I talked to a Toyota dealer about the new Prius and I was told that a solar sun roof would cost about 40 percent over the MSRP . Forty percent more for a solar sunroof that does not improve mileage at all and is only useful for ventilation purposes? Sounds like a waste of money to me.
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Len, et all, What do you guys think of the news this morning? The gov. is giving Chrysler 30 days to work the deal with Fiat and it is giving 60 days to GM to come up with a much better plan. Otherwise, bankruptcy is imminent. However, the gov. would take over the bankruptcy. What a mess! However, I still think that we saw the low in the stock market several weeks ago.
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Replying to: cyclone4 (Mar 30, 2009 7:49 am) You have to blow it up and start over. I think this could have been done cleaner but what do I know? Seems the Government knows best these days. Whatever...I am looking forward to a seeing new industry that can be competitive and market leading someday.... Regards, OW
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Replying to: dewey (Mar 30, 2009 7:09 am) You have flip-flopped on this issue of batteries. Your early posts indicated you did not want plug-in. Also, I have posted numerous times that I now believe that lithium ion batteries are a transition technology, and that I am convinced that nano-tech batteries will replace them in the not-too-distant future... and will be a MUCH better solution by leaps. In the Prius, I'd gladly stick with the same proven batteries for now and avoid the lithium ion. Bottom line... Consider yourself lucky.  TM
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Replying to: circlew (Mar 30, 2009 7:54 am) The irony is this: The auto companies that will survive will not be the auto companies with the best cars but with the best balance sheets. Similarily there are a lot of operationally healthy non-automotive companies today that are at the brink of bankruptcy because they were overzealoulsy financially leveraged . Millions of lay offs and all the economic misery that comes with corporate failures are all due to a bunch of financially literate executives who should have known better. Finance 101 teaches that leverage is a two edged sword. Unfortunately that lesson was ignored. And now that lesson is being ignored by the Government which in itself will cause even worse dire consequences during some future date.
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Replying to: tagman (Mar 30, 2009 8:33 am) I was unaware of their three year life spans and their $10K costs. They cannot be commercialized into mainstream production unless those lithium ion batteries improve. No wonder the Chevy Volt's price is already expected to be 40K and not 30K dollars.
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Replying to: dewey (Mar 30, 2009 8:41 am) Ditto! I was also unaware of this as well. Maybe this is why Toyota has been SO slow to implement the Lithium Ion batteries. If they are this expensive and they only have a 3 year life span, forget it. As Tag stated above, I will wait for the nano batteries to become readily available. |
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I have news for all you auto enthusiasts whose sole purpose in a car is driveable performance. Performance is no longer a priority in the auto industry. You want proof--check out the quotes below from a Fortune article about BMW a company whose reputation is built on performance cars: Says one BMW watcher: "The focus on sheer driving pleasure will not work anymore. You have to be sociably acceptable as well. That will take a complete redefinition of the brand." Reithofer's says "In the future we will not sell cylinders, we will sell modern technology". For the future, BMW must create a car that is economical, environmental, and clever. Who needs such a green BMW when there already is a Prius. Folks by giving up my BMW 335i for a Prius I am entering the future. I am so ahead of my time that I am just like that fellow who shaved his head years before Yul Bryner and Kojak. FORTUNE
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Replying to: dewey (Mar 30, 2009 8:35 am) Yes, greed ruled the decisions at the end of the day. The government has a lot of that as well. So, the lessons are re-taught time after time but they never sink in. Regards, OW |
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