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Sedans Luxury Lounge
21403 messages, Last post on Nov 27, 2009 at 8:50 AM
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Replying to: dewey (Oct 21, 2008 7:22 am) It also gives them choices to subsidise leases to gain volume or offer other incentives to increase sales. I agree that this segment will come under pressure due to recent economic changes, but in most industries the high end consumer has been less affected than the lower end when it comes to income and spending patterns. There are areas of the country where expensive homes are still selling well but low end homes don't move, the car industry may go the same way for a while. At the end of the day I don't think any of these companies would switch places with lower end brands. I do agree with you that the reason that we are here discussing these expensive cars is that econmic factors don't always dictate our interests. Most of us are fortunate to be able to drive some nice cars and even dream of the fancy Italian lemons that you've highlighted. 
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Replying to: clembo (Oct 21, 2008 8:32 am) At the end of the day, it's still a buyers market out there. Too bad I would still pay more for a foreign brand than US brand. You really have to be a die hard to the end. Toyota and Honda will gain share next year no doubt...at the expense of the Germans and the US. Regards, OW Regards, OW |
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Replying to: clembo (Oct 21, 2008 8:32 am) I agree with you. Dewey makes very good points, and he presents them well, but your reply adds the perspective that I share with you.  TM |
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Mr. H.! You would definately hurt yourself in a 135i... you are right when you say the power is excessive. The car is not for you. The entire auto industry is under pressure. BMW will be fine, unlike General Motors, for example. TM
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 21, 2008 9:11 am)  Having the wife drive the VW will open up a wonderful new world for me-that of the impractical vehicle. Sounds nice....but I will believe it when I see it. Nothing on order yet. I read your posts "elsewhere" to the dude who couldn't make up his mind in choosing between the GTI and the 128i. I agree that if one really loves driving, the 128i in stock form will be a more satisfying experience than the front-drive GTI. The only choice I will be making if given events fall into place is 328i coupe vs 128i coupe. Different dealer, though. |
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Replying to: dewey (Oct 21, 2008 7:22 am) I agree with you that BMW is hurting in NA. The entire leftover 2008 BMW model line in the USA is going for an unprecedented 0.9% financing at this time. As if that isn't bad enough, the 2009 models have already started showing up on dealers' lots at this time, making a huge glut of unsold BMW vehicles going forward inevitable. Also, BMW has shot itself in the foot by making their leasing terms undesirable. If BMW thinks people will buy BMW vehicles long-term at 0.9% and risk expensive warranty repairs after 4 years, instead of leasing short-term, their nuts!! Big mistake!! These potential customers will simply go elsewhere. With the significant quantity of unsold 2008's now being joined by an onslaught of soon to be unsold 2009's, I see BMWFS offering 0.9% on the 2009 models by the second quarter of 2009. The only choice BMW has in the USA to avoid catastrophe at this time is to seriously cut production of its vehicles. I resent your labeling me as a VW owner, "frugal." Haven't I been the guy who spares no expense on buying the world's best rum so my wife can continue to manufacture her intensely-satisfying rum cake? I was looking for a German, fun to drive, relatively fuel-efficient, practical vehicle that could hold my 68" road bike in the back. There weren't that many choices out there. Idiotic BMW chose to release the totally useless X6 instead of a practical hatchback variation of the 1 Series which really could have been something, that I and a lot of folks would have been interested in. Too bad. The wife is making a serious attempt at learning how to drive and if she gets her license, I will give her the VW and buy myself an impractical fun to drive vehicle like the 128i Coupe. I have issues with the Coupe's external appearance. However, the way I plan to drive it, nobody will see it anyway! After driving the 545i for three years, and not even being close to tapping its power resources, the last thing I want is a 135i. Happy Driving! 
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Replying to: hpowders (Oct 21, 2008 10:43 am) Post #15630: ...the last thing I want is a 135i. I don't think you are schizophrenic, but you might be having an internal tug of war. I'm kidding you. There are times when I know that I have absolutely no need for the power that's in the 135i. It is a lot for that vehicle. The 128i is an awesome vehicle, that is more than adequate for most needs, and you will appreciate its fuel economy as compared to the 135i. The 135i is so much fun, and I do love it, but it is indeed excessive power much of the time, and the 128i has plenty. It would also provide a lot of fun and enjoyment, there is no doubt. You would not be sorry to get either the 128i coupe or the 328i coupe. You won't find me poking at you if you were to get the N/A engine. It's a fine choice. Happy Driving, Indeed! TM
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Replying to: clembo (Oct 21, 2008 8:32 am) Overall I agree with you. And yes people in the lower end of the income/net worth spectrum will feel more pain than the affluent. But relative to the middle classes the wealthy are going to suffer more than in prior recession and that will not only be due to likely Obama tax hikes for those who earn 250k or over. (Based on recent polls that is very very likely) I wish my response could be a bit more brief but unfotunratly I will have to bore you with a long winded response. What is amazing, truly amazing is that this economic slowdown is being compared to the Great Depression. Unemployment is only around 6 percent. (it was 25 percent during the depression) Average wages continue to grow. (it declined substantially during the depression) US Gross National Product continues to be positive(output declined 33 percent during the depression) The US Dollar is at a one and a half year high compared to the Euro Trillions of overseas money continues to flow to the USA(certainly not a sign of no confidence) Credit card and Corporate defaults are only a fraction of what they were in recent recessions Does the above sound like a DEPRESSION to you or to anyone? Does this even sound like a recession to you? Nope it doesn’t? So far this is not an economic crisis but mainly a credit crisis that has not yet adversely affected the economy yet. BUT what makes this different from prior recessions is that almost every single asset has been inflated by too much debt. Now we are paying the price with these major asset deflations in equities, real estate, fixed income, commodities, emerging market assets. Almost every asset class is falling like a anchor except T-Bills and to a lesser degree gold. So who are the main owners of all these inflated assets? The wealthy ofcourse! And yes the wealthy are going to suffer as a result of this major asset deflation we are going through right now. That does not mean the wealthy are going to trade in their Bentleys for Corollas and their mansion for a rent control dwelling but what it does mean is that the biggest asset owners are going to suffer more relative wealth/income loss than the employed middle classes and even unemployed middle classes who dont have large mortgages and debts (unlike other recession where the rich were not as affected). And yes the most unfortunate ones among the wealthy are the ones who have borrowed heavily to increase their wealth. Recently quite a few Russian Billionaires are struggling to raised collateral to satisfy recent margin calls. Unfortunately it is not only fat cat Russians who are suffering but also westerners who happen to have invested in leveraged vehicles like hedge funds, private equity and trillions of dollars of derivatives. So yes unlike prior economic slow downs the pain will be shared more equally . 
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Replying to: hpowders (Oct 21, 2008 10:43 am) No offense about VW frugality. I view frugality as a badge of honor . That is why I am looking into buying a new Toyota Prius.
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