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Sedans Luxury Lounge
21520 messages, Last post on Dec 08, 2009 at 10:26 AM
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Replying to: bmlexus (Oct 20, 2008 9:37 am) How true. Just look at the car lineup: -Avalon... plain and simple... dull and boring. -Camry... a "must succeed" vehicle for Toyota, and it pulls it off, although it is still somewhat dull and boring, IMO. But, I'll give Toyota credit for the Camry. The hybrid variant of the Camry is noteworthy and has its merits. -Solara... another loser. -Corolla... the refresh isn't good enough, and the car handles poorly. It's only good for the CR folks. -Matrix... what's the point? Generations X,Y,and Z? Kill the Matrix. It's weird. -Prius... an excellent achievement of technology that is about to be replaced by a freakish update that has a new nose job that resembles the Yaris. If it weren't for the fact that it is a hybrid, it would never sell well. Yaris... Absolutely pathetic. And... the SUV's are mostly messed up, too. The FJ and Sequoia are dead. The 4-Runner is long-in-the-tooth, and the Highlander got a bad-looking redesign, although it is their smartest SUV, IMO. The RAV4 is decent enough for an SUV of that size. The TLC is now way too expensive. The new Venza is still a wildcard, but its appearance leaves a lot to be desired. The trucks are messed up as well. The Tundra is sized improperly, and doesn't really offer the kind of full-sized truck that mainstream America is after, and it's butt-ugly. The Tacoma is actually a decent small truck, IMO, but somehow it lost it's cool-factor that it once had. The Sienna is a minivan... and the Odyssey is simply better... nothing more needs to be said about that one. Toyota had better see the light, or they'll be sorry. It does appear that Honda is sneaking up on Toyota... and carrying a big hammer. (And while we're at it, let's add VW here. They are starting to sneak up on Toyota as well, IMO.) Don't forget, though, I'm biased... as I've posted in the past, I really like Honda as a company. (Although I'm disappointed recently in their Acura division.) I'd be content to see them kick the !  #$%! out of Toyota.  TM
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 20, 2008 10:26 am) Avalon... plain and simple... dull and boring It was supposed to be the Japanese Buick, what do you expect? -Camry... a "must succeed" vehicle for Toyota, and it pulls it off, although it is still somewhat dull and boring, IMO. Camry SE actually out handles Accord according to MT yet people still knock on the Camry... Personally I commend Toyota's strategy on offering two version of its popular midsize sedan (SE and LE/XLE) for different group of buyers. More choice means more power to the consumers. -Solara... another loser. It is going away. If you want the loser in this class you should take a look at the Altima coupe... -Corolla... the refresh isn't good enough, and the car handles poorly. It's only good for the CR folks. CR folks? Last I checked there are A LOT of them out there. Let's not keep forgetting that we are the minority. -Matrix... what's the point? Generations X,Y,and Z? Kill the Matrix. It's weird. It's a Corolla wagon. People/enthusiasts kept asking for more wagons in the US so it's not that pointless... -Prius... an excellent achievement of technology that is about to be replaced by a freakish update that has a new nose job that resembles the Yaris. If it weren't for the fact that it is a hybrid, it would never sell well. Personally I think the new Prius looks great, better than the new Honda Insight (There's the famous "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder). Also, who buys the Prius for its looks anyways? If this thing can return 60 mpg combine with LI batteries coming in the second year then it can be looking like a pig but people will still flock the lot trying to get one... Yaris... Absolutely pathetic. Not so pathetic at this economy and to people who can't have 911S, 335i, MDX and Jag XJ on their driveways... FJ - never was a volume seller Sequoia - Check out other full size BOF SUVs in the class. Yup, they are all doing pretty terrible. 4-Runner - See Sequoia Highlander - Personally I think the new Highlander looks much much better than the previous gen in both exterior and interior. Toyota is returning the 4-banger engine (brand new engine with around 190HP and better FE) to the Highlander lineup beginning next year so the future is looking up. RAV4 - Also getting the new 4-banger. Still the second (a very close second) best selling compact CUV in its class. Tundra - Actually won the MT truck of the year award and simply is a better truck than its competitors at debut. If you take a look at Edmunds IL's long term blog you'll see that the Tundra is actually favored over the Silverado. The previous gen Tundra was being made fun of not being the "real" full-size pick up and when Toyota actually gave them one then it's "sized improperly"? The logic seems off somewhere to this engineer... Tundra is a great truck but just happened to be in the wrong economy plain and simple. Take a look at others' sales number then you'll see. Tacoma - Still the best selling midsize pickup. Period. Honda is sneaking up on Toyota only because of it is really not a full-line auto manufacture, take out Toyota's BOF products then it's a whole new story. Once Toyota finishes it's product realignment (shifting truck plants to produce more sedans and assemble Prius here in the stateside) then Honda's advantage will likely to be gone. And then there is the Acura vs. Lexus thingy, not to mention there will be more hybrid models coming for Lexus in the very near future (2009). VW? I am not eve going to go there... All I would say is that Toyota is gaining in China much faster than VW is gaining (is it even gaining?) here in the states. Anyone with half a brain can see where is it going with this trend... But then again, I am bised... 
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Replying to: louiswei (Oct 20, 2008 12:21 pm) I do think that Toyota has its work cut out for itself, as do the rest of the manufacturers at this point in history. It's really a whole new ball game now, and these companies are being challenged to their very core. I have no doubt that Toyota will be successful in spite of some bumps in the road. TM |
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Replying to: louiswei (Oct 20, 2008 12:21 pm) The old Highlander and the old Pilot actually looked pretty similar. Toyota went with a weird jellybean shape this time, while Honda went in the total opposite direction and made a brick. The Highlander's interior does look much more modern than before, but materials quality is WAY down. Sharp and hard GM style plastics everywhere. Honda has completely forgotten how to make an ergonomic center stack. That stupid control knob has utterly ruined their interiors for me. Frankly I don't think either of them has any real style or design leaders, even just among the Japanese competition. The new Mazda6 and Maxima are both better looking, better performers, and have better interiors than Accord and Camry/Avalon. I like the outgoing Mazda3 better than the Civic, and the new '10 version will probably be even better. The 5-door version also is infinitely better than the Matrix. The Corolla remains nothing but a transport appliance for people who hate cars.
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Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 20, 2008 1:12 pm) ...materials quality is WAY down... That all gets to the point that was being made earlier, that in a general sense, Toyota's design and quality of materials has eroded. The Corolla remains nothing but a transport appliance for people who hate cars. OUCH! (but, I agree.) The difference between Honda and Toyota is that I see almost nothing from Toyota that is getting better (with regards to design appearance and quality of materials), while Honda has the recent CR-V, the recent Civic,the upcoming Insight, which looks decent for a five door hatch hybrid and is based on the reasonably-attractive FCX limited-production fuel cell vehicle. The upcoming CR-Z looks like it might be another winner, and the atttractive open study concept, which might replace the good-looking S2000. So, there are definate signs of hope in the design department at Honda. No doubt that Mazda and Nissan have done their homework, but they have major areas of weakness as well. I guess I'll go out on a limb here and post that out of all the current and very soon-to-be Asian vehicles, a few that stand out for me are the G37, GT-R, and Z-car from Nissan/Infiniti, the IS350 and IS-F from Toyota/Lexus, the MDX, S2000, Civic, CR-V, FCX, the new Insight and upcoming CR-Z from Honda, the MazdaSpeed 3, and MX-5 Miata from Mazda of course, the Genesis from Hyundai, The Evo from Mitsubishi, and to some extent even the WRX from Subaru. I might have missed one or two, but those are a few that quickly come to mind for now. TM
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Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 20, 2008 1:12 pm) LOL, Have you ever consider being a writer? Since every1 has answered everything, I have nothing more to ask or add  We better get back to Luxury cars
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 20, 2008 2:26 pm) Indeed. The Titan has been a massive disaster for Nissan, and I doubt the Quest and Armada are doing much better. The Versa is getting hammered by the Honda Fit, and the Sentra is just awful. Mazda still has too many rebadged Fords, the turbo four doesn't really work in the CX-7, and the V6 6 has woeful fuel economy. They're also going to have to do something with that dirty, oil-guzzling wankel. Not exactly a PC engine these days. Subaru seems to be actively trying to kill itself. Subaru customers aren't looking for an AWD Toyota. They want something weird/ugly that's at least half decent to drive. Now it's like their designers are having a contest to out-bland each other.
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Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 20, 2008 4:13 pm) Well, why not add General Motors, Chrysler, and Ford (and maybe even Mitsubishi) to the suicide list. Will they actually succeed in their self destruction? We'll see, but if they don't completely destroy themselves, they will certainly end up as very different companies than they have been up to this point. And, of course, Ford also committed homicide with Jaguar, which is now trying to survive life-support by way of Tata Motors. Honda is attempting internal sabatoge of its own Acura division, but it's own Honda line-up is poised for major success... no, massive success, IMO. And the little darling, Tesla Motors, is already in a serious cash-flow dilemma, as it must speed up production while cutting itself in half. The automotive landscape is undergoing the first steps of major change, and the question of bailouts and whether or not we will have an economy that can support the auto industry as we've known it, is in the process of being answered. On a side note, I think the Germans are going to benefit from all of these changes, but they will need to introduce their newer, more fuel-efficient products sooner than they had anticipated. The Versa is getting hammered by the Honda Fit The competitive damage will continue as the Honda Fit will receive its first hybrid powertrain in the near future. Also, I would expect that the CR-V, which is already a smashing success story, will get a hybrid or diesel variant within two model years. TM
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This may not be in the US jurisdiction but a single standard should apply worldwide......... I had my Jaguar X-type serviced at Jaguar Thailand and was charged for 8 liter of engine oil change even though the spec requires only 6.5. Several enquiries were made to Jaguar Thailand and Jaguar UK and, after over a month, there seem to be no one responsible for this unethical act. So, beware and be warned!! |
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