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Sedans Luxury Lounge
21428 messages, Last post on Nov 29, 2009 at 11:46 AM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: dewey (Oct 18, 2008 7:31 pm) What made you decide to come back? Great to see you posting here.  '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
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Replying to: bmlexus (Oct 19, 2008 3:45 pm) esf, sure the 2.0 is the better deal, but even a loaded 2.0 already cost about $45k. In comparison, a loaded 335i here can be had for $46k tops.
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Replying to: esf (Oct 19, 2008 8:28 pm) If you've never tried the current 4.2 S-line, you really should. I've driven the C5 A6 on three occasions, a 2.8, a 4.2, and the 2.7T S-line. The 2.8 was an absolute slug, and probably the most boring German car I've ever driven. It was like a big Teutonic Camry. The 4.2 (non sport) was better, at least the power problem was solved, but it resisted quick direction changes and really didn't like to be pushed. It basically felt like it had one of those "16 Ton" weights from the old cartoons welded to the front bumper. The 2.7T S-line on the other hand was quite enjoyable and fun to drive. Maybe not a match for a 540i Sport, but it was much better than the old E430, and definitely the best of the C5 generation short of the old RS6. The C6 is heavier, larger, and more "mature" than the C5, and I agree that the standard suspension setup (as before) is boring. The sport suspension really does make a big improvement though. The 3.2 S-line would probably be the better handler, but there just isn't quite enough power for all that mass. The new 3.0T S-line will finally be a proper replacement for the old 2.7T, but the 4.2 S-line really isn't bad. No, it's not as fun as an XF, 5, or M45 Sport, but the A6 never was the sportiest car in its class. |
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Replying to: m4d_cow (Oct 19, 2008 9:37 pm) Um, the new 7 already has the 3.0L TT engine. It's called the 740i, and produces 326hp and 332ft.lbs. |
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 19, 2008 4:59 pm) Yeah, your correct, If compare the camry with the accord, IMO the accord has the better interior, there is also the Acura and Lexus divisions that could be compared in terms of design and materials. Poking at Acura would be all too easy, and that would counter your statement that Honda is gaining on Toyota in terms of design and materials, at least as far as the Acura division goes. As I mentioned Toyota has forgotten itself,its only making Lexus more luxurious, but the Toyota brand is getting rather more and more simple. BTW, do you agree with me that Honda's Insight kicks the Prius in the butt Yes, 100% unless the Prius production version changes.
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Replying to: esf (Oct 19, 2008 8:41 pm) It's nine inches shorter than the 6 Series coupe. You tell me which one it's closer in size--and price--to Closer in size, 3 series, Price,3 series as well! Your correct, 6 series is in a different category. If I wanted a coupe, would chosen the A5 S5. |
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Replying to: bmlexus (Oct 20, 2008 9:37 am) How true. Just look at the car lineup: -Avalon... plain and simple... dull and boring. -Camry... a "must succeed" vehicle for Toyota, and it pulls it off, although it is still somewhat dull and boring, IMO. But, I'll give Toyota credit for the Camry. The hybrid variant of the Camry is noteworthy and has its merits. -Solara... another loser. -Corolla... the refresh isn't good enough, and the car handles poorly. It's only good for the CR folks. -Matrix... what's the point? Generations X,Y,and Z? Kill the Matrix. It's weird. -Prius... an excellent achievement of technology that is about to be replaced by a freakish update that has a new nose job that resembles the Yaris. If it weren't for the fact that it is a hybrid, it would never sell well. Yaris... Absolutely pathetic. And... the SUV's are mostly messed up, too. The FJ and Sequoia are dead. The 4-Runner is long-in-the-tooth, and the Highlander got a bad-looking redesign, although it is their smartest SUV, IMO. The RAV4 is decent enough for an SUV of that size. The TLC is now way too expensive. The new Venza is still a wildcard, but its appearance leaves a lot to be desired. The trucks are messed up as well. The Tundra is sized improperly, and doesn't really offer the kind of full-sized truck that mainstream America is after, and it's butt-ugly. The Tacoma is actually a decent small truck, IMO, but somehow it lost it's cool-factor that it once had. The Sienna is a minivan... and the Odyssey is simply better... nothing more needs to be said about that one. Toyota had better see the light, or they'll be sorry. It does appear that Honda is sneaking up on Toyota... and carrying a big hammer. (And while we're at it, let's add VW here. They are starting to sneak up on Toyota as well, IMO.) Don't forget, though, I'm biased... as I've posted in the past, I really like Honda as a company. (Although I'm disappointed recently in their Acura division.) I'd be content to see them kick the !  #$%! out of Toyota.  TM
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 20, 2008 10:26 am) Avalon... plain and simple... dull and boring It was supposed to be the Japanese Buick, what do you expect? -Camry... a "must succeed" vehicle for Toyota, and it pulls it off, although it is still somewhat dull and boring, IMO. Camry SE actually out handles Accord according to MT yet people still knock on the Camry... Personally I commend Toyota's strategy on offering two version of its popular midsize sedan (SE and LE/XLE) for different group of buyers. More choice means more power to the consumers. -Solara... another loser. It is going away. If you want the loser in this class you should take a look at the Altima coupe... -Corolla... the refresh isn't good enough, and the car handles poorly. It's only good for the CR folks. CR folks? Last I checked there are A LOT of them out there. Let's not keep forgetting that we are the minority. -Matrix... what's the point? Generations X,Y,and Z? Kill the Matrix. It's weird. It's a Corolla wagon. People/enthusiasts kept asking for more wagons in the US so it's not that pointless... -Prius... an excellent achievement of technology that is about to be replaced by a freakish update that has a new nose job that resembles the Yaris. If it weren't for the fact that it is a hybrid, it would never sell well. Personally I think the new Prius looks great, better than the new Honda Insight (There's the famous "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder). Also, who buys the Prius for its looks anyways? If this thing can return 60 mpg combine with LI batteries coming in the second year then it can be looking like a pig but people will still flock the lot trying to get one... Yaris... Absolutely pathetic. Not so pathetic at this economy and to people who can't have 911S, 335i, MDX and Jag XJ on their driveways... FJ - never was a volume seller Sequoia - Check out other full size BOF SUVs in the class. Yup, they are all doing pretty terrible. 4-Runner - See Sequoia Highlander - Personally I think the new Highlander looks much much better than the previous gen in both exterior and interior. Toyota is returning the 4-banger engine (brand new engine with around 190HP and better FE) to the Highlander lineup beginning next year so the future is looking up. RAV4 - Also getting the new 4-banger. Still the second (a very close second) best selling compact CUV in its class. Tundra - Actually won the MT truck of the year award and simply is a better truck than its competitors at debut. If you take a look at Edmunds IL's long term blog you'll see that the Tundra is actually favored over the Silverado. The previous gen Tundra was being made fun of not being the "real" full-size pick up and when Toyota actually gave them one then it's "sized improperly"? The logic seems off somewhere to this engineer... Tundra is a great truck but just happened to be in the wrong economy plain and simple. Take a look at others' sales number then you'll see. Tacoma - Still the best selling midsize pickup. Period. Honda is sneaking up on Toyota only because of it is really not a full-line auto manufacture, take out Toyota's BOF products then it's a whole new story. Once Toyota finishes it's product realignment (shifting truck plants to produce more sedans and assemble Prius here in the stateside) then Honda's advantage will likely to be gone. And then there is the Acura vs. Lexus thingy, not to mention there will be more hybrid models coming for Lexus in the very near future (2009). VW? I am not eve going to go there... All I would say is that Toyota is gaining in China much faster than VW is gaining (is it even gaining?) here in the states. Anyone with half a brain can see where is it going with this trend... But then again, I am bised... 
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Replying to: louiswei (Oct 20, 2008 12:21 pm) I do think that Toyota has its work cut out for itself, as do the rest of the manufacturers at this point in history. It's really a whole new ball game now, and these companies are being challenged to their very core. I have no doubt that Toyota will be successful in spite of some bumps in the road. TM |
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Replying to: louiswei (Oct 20, 2008 12:21 pm) The old Highlander and the old Pilot actually looked pretty similar. Toyota went with a weird jellybean shape this time, while Honda went in the total opposite direction and made a brick. The Highlander's interior does look much more modern than before, but materials quality is WAY down. Sharp and hard GM style plastics everywhere. Honda has completely forgotten how to make an ergonomic center stack. That stupid control knob has utterly ruined their interiors for me. Frankly I don't think either of them has any real style or design leaders, even just among the Japanese competition. The new Mazda6 and Maxima are both better looking, better performers, and have better interiors than Accord and Camry/Avalon. I like the outgoing Mazda3 better than the Civic, and the new '10 version will probably be even better. The 5-door version also is infinitely better than the Matrix. The Corolla remains nothing but a transport appliance for people who hate cars.
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