Last post on May 16, 2013 at 9:57 AM
You are in the Chrysler 300M
What is this discussion about?
Chrysler 300M, Sedan
This topic covers any issues related to hard starting, no starts, stalling and erratic idling problems.
#126 of 195 stalling/ engine cuts off issue
Aug 09, 2011 (3:19 pm)
my 99 300m recently has also started having this problem. It will start fine and run well but when i come to a stop light or sometimes slow down, it will stall or just die. Sometimes it wont restart unless i hit the gas a bit. Also I've started to hear a slight tapping sound. I hear it after the engine has gotten warm and mostly when im stopped at a light but not when the car is being driven even at the lowest speed. What could be causing this? Any and all help would be appreciated. By the way it has 184500 miles on it and I've kept the oil changed like clockwork. Im wondering it its the crank sensor, fuel pump or distributor. As for the tapping Im hoping its not the rocker arm.
#127 of 195 Re: stalling/ engine cuts off issue [morgan71]
Aug 10, 2011 (9:40 am)
sounds like it could be EGR valve
try driving it with the OBD II code reader
attached and look for intermittent EGR error codes
#128 of 195 Re: stalling/ engine cuts off issue [danfishinman]
Aug 11, 2011 (1:51 pm)
thanks for the info, will give it a try tomorrow when i drop it off at my mech. will keep you posted.
thanks again for your help.
#129 of 195 Re: stalling/ engine cuts off issue [morgan71]
Aug 12, 2011 (1:22 pm)
morgan71 : When stalling occurs , the first thing you should check is the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor on the drivers side of the engine Plenum (Black Plastic Air Intake). This MAP sensor is responsible for feeding signals to the PCM , which in turn is "Primary" in the calculation and regulation of the air/fuel mixture (according to the Chrysler Service Manuals). "Primary" means , that if your MAP Sensor is failing or leaking , the PCM cannot calculate the intake pressure - therefor all other sensor readings and calculation will be incorrect or adversely effected. To test the MAP Sensor , fill a spray bottle with water , and while the engine is running at idle , spray a short burst directly onto the MAP sensor mounting/seal area on the Plenum. If the engine idle speed is effected , it is time to check the O-ring seals/replace them , remove sensor & clean with compressed air or replace the MAP Sensor itself. Note also , that when at highway speed the engine vacuum will be much greater , so replacing the 2 O-rings is a good idea regardless of any leak test results at idle or increased RPM - due to load factors. If your MAP Sensor has a provision on it's shaft for 2 O-rings , you will note a difference if only 1 is installed. A positive seal is a MUST , which includes any hoses etc. connected to the air intake distribution duct etc. (ie : brake vacuum booster). "Any loss of vacuum decreases the amount of available air in the Plenum".
Incorrect spark plugs can also effect engines in this way. The correct spark plugs for the 3.5L engine are : NGK Laser Platinum Premium ZFR5LP-13G , while ANY other spark plug can cause fuel calibration problems - due to unburned vapors (flooding).
As far as ticking goes , you should be looking firstly at what type of oil filter you regularly use. From my experience on my 2002 300M Special , I noted that the Fram oil filter was , not only very cheap , but - the original filter I took off was : hardly filled (not much in the filter when removed) , and when shaken (there was a sloppy sloshing sound when empty) - meaning the filter had just soaked up oil and became nothing but a soggy piece of cardboard. To the contrary , most filters will remain solid (when removed , emptied and shaken - no sloppy sloshing sound is present). I highly recommend using either a Mopar oil filter or a K&N oil filter (# HP2004 for 3.5L) - as the K&N has a anti-backflow stopper that prevents "dry starts". When I installed the K&N filter , it did allow oil to be available to the upper engine components earlier , where no rattle or slightly abnormal sounds were present prior to that at initial startup. This speaks volumes about whether or not your oil (especially if already contaminated by abnormal engine deposits) , is being filtered , and any deposits are being trapped by the oil filter. Also , the K&N oil filter is very easy to install or remove , as it has a built-in hex nut welded to the mounting end - where you simply use a 1" hex or open end wrench to either remove or install it (a very good feature). There are also other characteristics that the K&N oil filter provide : such as a extra thick walled design (for racing engines) - where the filter cannot become punctured or crack/explode. For twice the cost , it is a no-brainer (and your engine deposits will have been collected and stored between oil changes) - not circulated throughout the engine with a cardboard substance (wood)? Consider that Fram oil filters are being sold below the cheapest cost of almost any oil filter. This strikes a cord in me - because if I remember correctly - Fram used to advertise that you could use their oil filters without the need to change them at each oil change (suggesting a higher value).
A bit of oil filter history : When I bought my car in March/11 , there was a Fram PH16 oil filter on the engine (which had some sort of chalk marks on it) , so I replaced it immediately with another new Fram PH16. When I removed the original Fram PH16 , the sloppy sloshing sound was present. When I removed the new Fram PH16 after just 30 days (no daily driving) , it too had the sloppy sloshing sound present when empty. Then I changed to the K&N oil filter - which made the slight engine noises stop immediately at startup. In another couple of months I will again , change the filter to another K&N oil filter - and note any heavy or abnormal deposits from the oil filter drainage fluid.
Checking these 3 areas of components , should produce results - before you have the vehicle checked at a dealer or with a DRB III testing unit for fault codes or suspicious problem areas. Note also , that any checking with any digital tester - depends on having "normal" component conditions , to achieve a proper or good diagnosis for repair/replacements.
#130 of 195 Re: stalling/ engine cuts off issue [pitmanoeuvre]
Aug 13, 2011 (12:08 pm)
Well now the car just cranks and wont start at all. I turned the key back and forth without starting it to get the trouble code and it gave me p1694. I looked it up and this is what i found "No CCD Messages Received From ECM". I am assuming that this means the ECM is gone. What do you think? Any suggestions. Also thank you for your reply and the info you gave me. I just took it to the shop today and told them whats wrong and what i found.
Let me know what you think it could be.
#131 of 195 Re: stalling/ engine cuts off issue [danfishinman]
Aug 13, 2011 (12:09 pm)
Well now the car just cranks and wont start at all. I turned the key back and forth without starting it to get the trouble code and it gave me p1694. I looked it up and this is what i found "No CCD Messages Received From ECM". I am assuming that this means the ECM is gone. What do you think? Any suggestions.
Let me know what you think it could be.
#132 of 195 Re: stalling/ engine cuts off issue [morgan71]
Aug 13, 2011 (3:47 pm)
My mechanic got me up and running...apparently my crank and cam sensor needed to be replaced...all for the low low price of $150.00!!!! So to all whom are having this problem...have your crank and cam sensors checked and or replaced...also heres a trick i picked up from another site...with all of your doors closed...insert your key as if you were going to start your car but dont...turn the key to the on position and off and do this within a 5 second period and then leave the key in the on position...you should see an error code pop up where the mileage gauge is...should read something like p1694 or something like that...hope this helps.
#133 of 195 Re: stalling/ engine cuts off issue [morgan71]
Aug 13, 2011 (6:15 pm)
Yes , the crank and cam sensors are part of the calculations/calibrations that the PCM makes at initial startup. Without those 2 sensors being accurate , in conjuction with others as I mentioned previously - a NO FUEL or NO/ PROPER SPARK TIMING condition will result. It is very common , according to the service intervals for the timing etc./belts to be replaced , where the crank and cam sensors are also located. Many owners are worried about this , and actually do want them all changed once the vehicle reaches the required or applicable mileage. Not to mention that your gas mileage is a factor , along with premature starter failure or wear , due to ignoring a telltale repeated startup condition.
Owners of the 300M , have to realize that there isn't any distributor or spark plug wires on the engine , the system works strictly from the battery & voltage regulator that is actually contained within the PCM itself , and a variety of sensors send signals to the PCM to calculate spark timings etc. , that go to each of the 6 coil packs that reside in direct connection (at the top of the motor) to the spark plugs directly. That is why it is very important that each sensor works correctly.
In my case , with my 300M , I am only the 2nd owner - and the lady who owned it , didn't drive it in winter (unless necessary or when weather permitted) - as the original paint is still in really good condition underneath the car throughout. Definately , if your engine begins to stall at startup , fails to start or starts and stalls - it is time to check the SPARK PLUGS/ MAP/CAM/CRANK sensors - and NOT ignore those symptoms. If you do , the next thing you know - the starter wears out (on used cars). I always start at the spark plugs (mine showed signs of rust on the white porcelain insulators) / replaced , then the intake air system/sensors. From there , it is a question of whether or not the PCM is receiving good signals from the main sensors (cam & crank) etc. This puts the timing dead on correct. Adversely , it is incorrect IMO - to start by suspecting or testing your cam or crank sensor (especially if the engine runs good - but has minor problems). When dealing with a 1999 vehicle , it is a good idea to suspect that the entire timing belt apparatus/sensors are worn , but I would start at the top and work my way down (always on any engine). Because , sometimes - something as simple as a clogged air filter can cause major problems (a no-brainer to be checking the cam & crank sensors etc. if that is the case).
It is very important to have/maintain your vehicle's components in a chronological order. For example to the contrary : A lady was driving her 300M in a parking lot , she went over a speed bump & parked the car. Then she saw that her radiator fluid was completely draining out under the car. She suspected that the speed bump had something to do with it , but that was not the case. She took the car to a mechanic , who told her that one of the cylinders in the engine block had a hairline crack - and that the engine required a test which cost over $2,000.00.
She was sent off on her way , (with said test bill in hand) , while only her coolant was replaced , after the mechanic discovered that the main rad hose had been "blown off" , where he reconnected it with a new clamp. "THAT IS IMPROPER". Seeing as there wasn't any visible white smoke coming from the tailpipe , the thermostat should have been replaced for safety (high pressure blew the rad hose off) - along with a flush and fill process (possibly contaminated or wrong coolant). Granted a flush/fill & thermostat would have cost a bit more - she would have at the very least been able to drive the car home without incident. In fact , she had to pull the car over on her way home - seeing as her (in car) temperature gauge was showing a very high reading. This is a fine example of non-chronological diagnosis , performing a very temporary fix - and also claiming that the engine block was damaged as well.
Obviously - the major condition was that the rad hose had blown off. And the only way to make certain that the thermostat wasn't sticking - was to replace it before refilling the system with coolant. If you didn't take the thermostat out (who knows whether or not the installed thermostat is the correct or adequate part)? I would expect to have that kind of service performed by someone who is either trying to rip me off - or someone who doesn't know what they are doing at all.
Moreover - if the waterpump had failed completely , why would you be refilling the system with coolant and sending the customer on their way (if you tested everything , including the cylinder pressures)? The only time you would send a customer on their way (their decision) in this case - is when and if the engine was producing a great deal of white smoke from it's exhaust (coolant burning). A last resort situation (tow truck required) - but - in this case , the customer had no qualms with repairing whatever was wrong. Not to mention this lady could have been badly burned by opening her hood to check the engine (if the waterpump had not been circulating fluid). Why let her take that risk and send her on her way?
Chronologically : the rad hose blew off. Explanation : water pump is NOT working , or thermostat is NOT working correctly etc. NO REFILLING OF THE SYSTEM WILL FIX THAT.
#134 of 195 Re: issues [pitmanoeuvre]
Aug 18, 2011 (8:46 am)
i will check into the spark plugs. got another question.. thinkn there an electrical problem, which cld be spark plug related im hopeing. randomly, the car will do these things. cruise control, ac, and temp outside and temp for the motor will not work.... the other day it had rained. i hit a very small puddle at hwy speeds on the front right tire, car started to accel oddly and engine light was flashing. i pulled over, turned car off and started again right away, everything was fine.
#135 of 195 Good turn over NO start 1st of day only
Aug 23, 2011 (12:53 pm)
If I insert key and turn immediately I get good turn over No start.
I learned if I insert key,WAIT 10 to 15 seconds (during which time I hear a pump working)
then turn key it starts perfect.
If I go in stort for 1 hour come out no problem.
New battery and plugs.
2004M with 80K
My present "cure" is to leave and return in a couple hours.
I'm a newbie here. Thanks Lou