Last post on Feb 25, 2013 at 10:12 AM
You are in the Toyota Matrix
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Matrix, Tires, Wheels, Wagon
#229 of 265 Re: Dealership [friday414]
Jan 25, 2010 (11:36 pm)
I traded my 2006 Matrix with tire wear problems in on a 2009 model on the same day that the dealership was installing a gadget to fix the alignment problem. There is a fix and the dealers do know about it. Guess I'll find out if they listened to any of the complaints on this forum when my new car has a little more mileage on it.
The most important thing you all have to do is to register your complaint with Toyota. You can do this by phone. Check the website for phone numbers.
I'm convinced that not enough Matrix owners know about Edmunds or have bothered to register their complaint with Toyota.
There's probably some way to find my old postings--with more specifice details on the
"fix" on this site, but I haven't had time to go back this evening. I know I was back--probably before the 100th post. Looks like the entire discussion has come full circle.
#230 of 265 Re: Dealership [sgracie]
Jan 28, 2010 (10:12 am)
Sally, dealers are denying ever hearing of a problem with tire wear on the Matrix. One went so far as to say the total redesign should have fixed any issues IF there were any. We ended up walking away from Toyota (after years of owning them). Now the recall has me wondering and worrying over our 04 matrix we handed down to son #2.
#231 of 265 Continental Tire wear
Jan 30, 2010 (4:47 am)
I have a 2006 Matrix XR that I bought new back in November 2005. Replaced the tires with some Goodyear tires from Wal-Mart for about $100/tire at around 24,000 a couple of years ago. I normally rotated & balanced the tires every 5,000 miles whenever I got an oil change (and still do). Now at around 62,000 the Goodyear tires seem fine with none of the odd inner wear or loud road noise that the Continental tires I had exhibited before I got rid of them. Last time I got an oil change ( I get them done at Wal-Mart since the tires had lifetime balancing rotation free since I bought them there) and the wear on the invoice showed 8/32 and no advisory that tires are worn. I did get an alignment (front wheel I believe, not 4 wheel) after replacing the tires partially because of this but mainly because of potholes during winter months in Indianapolis, IN. Leads me to think that it was the tires since the "new" tires seem fine.
#232 of 265 Re: Continental Tire wear [indgomtrx]
Feb 02, 2010 (1:15 pm)
I'm also convinced it's mainly the Continental tires, not the Matrix, for several reasons:
The excessive wear on my tires is only at the extreme edge, only the last band of tread. If it were a camber problem I think it would be a gradual transition from one side to the other.
An independent shop showed alignment is well within spec.
I had a co-worker with a Matrix that came with Goodyear tires and had even tread wear.
When I had my tires flipped over on the rims (see my previous posts) an SUV was also in the shop getting its Continental tires replaced because of...you guessed it...excessive wear on the edges.
I'm not denying that some Matrixes have bad alignment, but I've yet to see anyone complain of edge wear and noise with tires other than Continental. Ironically I use Continental tires on my bicycle (I commute to work every day on) because they are far better than any other brand I've tried.
Feb 02, 2010 (2:27 pm)
There was a post here stating that the camber may be in spec but the spec is written so the camber is excessive so when the Matrix is performing the slalom movement the tires are flat and the Matrix will not roll over easily. When the tires are in spec they wear on the inside edgedue to camber set for the slalom. If you ever go to a short track high banked auto race the right front tire is cambered excessively so when it is under power and on the banking it will be closer to flat and give good traction. I have Continental tires on my Matrix and they are very noisy and the car has terrible ride characteristics. The dealer has just a list of BS reasons and with the gas pedal debacle now they are not going to do anything for us. I will never own another Toyota!
#234 of 265 Re: Matrix/tires [friday414]
Feb 05, 2010 (4:23 am)
Let me confirm what Friday said:
The alignment specs for the Matrix include a rear camber of 1.45° ±0.50°. My experience is that anytime the camber is specified over 1°, then the vehicle is likely to have tire wear issues.
But what triggers this wear is the toe. The rear toe is specified as 0° ±0.20° (per side). My experience is that anything over 0.06° (again per side) leads to wear issues.
This means that not all Matrix owners are going to experience this wear - and it's going to depend on how far off the nominal value the vehicle is.
This also means that vehicle can experience tire wear issues even if the alignment is "IN SPEC",
And lastly, it also means the tires are not the source of the problem - which would explain why folks have seen the wear on more than just the original tires.
But you should be aware that most alignment techs aren't savvy enough to recognize the issues about tolerance. They are usually a "set and forget" type. This would be especially true at a car dealership - where they probably have explicit instructions to set the alignment at the factory values. Most of the time this is OK, and it makes sense in the context of trying to do maintain what the alignment setting are when the vehicle leaves the shop. It just makes sense that they ALL be set according to the factory setting, so if the vehicle comes back with an alignment issue, it would be clear that the vehicle encountered an object that changed the settings.
So my advice would be to take the vehicle to an alignment shop NOT affiliated with a dealership and have them set the camber below 1°, and the toe to the nominal value.
#235 of 265 Re: Matrix/tires [capriracer]
Feb 05, 2010 (5:40 am)
Great reply! I did not have the specs but I have an understanding of how a suspension works. At the dealer, the SM said our car got 28K miles out of tires that normally just get 10K before they were worn out. He said my wife must be very easy on the car. She is the primary driver and she IS very gentle on the car. I noticed the noise and thought it may be wheel bearings. Then after talking with him and trying to understand how she was at fault for her "problem" he told us she is making the car turn too often. I can see that there is no way they are going to do anything. The offer to waive the $15 installation fee on a new set of tires just made me madder! I repeat that this is my last Toyota. I was duped by their highly successful racing programs over the years thinking it would carry over.
#236 of 265 Re: Matrix/tires [capriracer]
Feb 06, 2010 (1:36 pm)
I respect your expertise.
However, all the camber and toe #s on my Matrix meet your criteria, and the edge wear only happens on the front tires.
#237 of 265 Re: Matrix/tires [circuitsmith]
Feb 07, 2010 (5:00 am)
It wasn't clear, but my earlier post was about irregular wear - commonly called "Cupping".
You should also be aware that tire wear is very complex and even vehicles with the alignment settings outside the settings I stated MAY get even wear. It's kind of a "tendency" sort of thing.
But in your case, there are some questions that your earlier posts don't answer:
Were the front tires EVER on the rear? If so, then it's quite possible that the wear occurred on the rear - where there is a lot of camber - and wasn't noticed. Then when those rear tires were rotated to the front, the front positions added wear on top of the wear that was already there, making it appear that the wear occurred on the front.
Plus, it's also possible to get the type of wear you describe from "spirited" driving - and this would include sharp turns when pulling into a parking spot.
I did a quick look at the alignment specs for the front of the matrix and I see 2 things:
1) The front camber spec + the tolerance does have a range from +0.18° to -1.32° - so it's possible for the front to be "in Spec" but over -1°.
2) The front caster spec is a bit on the high side - 2.78° ± 0.75°. Caster can be considered "Camber gain on turning", and that would add camber during cornering situations. So if you do a lot of turns compared to how much you drive straight ahead - in other words, short trips - then you could also experience wear on only one side.
#238 of 265 Re: Matrix/tires [capriracer]
Feb 07, 2010 (4:15 pm)
Front and rear camber are negative and less than 1°. I've misplaced the alignment printout so I don't have specific numbers.
When I got the car it had 8100 miles. The rear tires looked nearly new and the fronts had some wear on the inside edge. I had the Toyota dealer rotate them before I drove it away.
For the next 7000 miles I watched as the inside edges wore away on the front tires. At that point I had the tires flipped on the rims.
I drive pretty gently most of the time. Stop and go city driving.