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Ford Escape Hybrid Brake Problems

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#62 of 130 Re: Escape Hybrid on fire! [imacabbie] by mecheng1 Dec 06, 2007 (8:52 am)
Replying to: imacabbie (Dec 05, 2007 10:05 pm) Thanks for the excellent description of your experience. Sounds like there was enough warning to prevent the catastrophic failure you saw....something most owners would rather do than sell the car after starting to hear the ka-chunk.   Sounds like you had a malfunction of the rear foundation brakes or more likely a major misalignment of the parking brake components inside the regular rear brake rotors.   Who services the brakes on your hybrids?   The ka-chunk was probably a signal that something was starting the fail ...the shaking was the ultimate failure...the flames were the result of continuing to drive on the failed brake components.   Did you notice if any of the lights on the dash came on? Replies to this message: imacabbie (Dec 06, 2007 10:33 am)
#63 of 130 Re: Escape Hybrid on fire! [mecheng1] by imacabbie Dec 06, 2007 (10:33 am)
Replying to: mecheng1 (Dec 06, 2007 8:52 am) We have our own garage & mechanics who work on all of the cars. Frankly, they only do what is absolutely necessary. The ka-chunk happens when you break in every one of these FEH that I've driven. The "service soon" message has been on for months along with the yellow wrench. The cab had been in the shop the day before this happened but I don't know what they worked on. I only drive this car 1 night/week. Someone else drives it days and other nights. No other lights had come on while I was having problems, or when the car started fire, nothing. Our mechanics are familar with crown vics and grand marquis but I question what they know about this vehicle.   So, if they had worked on the breaks and put them together wrong would this have caused this kind of failure? I would have stopped driving had I seen some kind of info on the dash lights or a message that there was some new problem.
#64 of 130 On Fire! by mperski Dec 06, 2007 (12:51 pm)
How many warning lights need to come on before you think there's a problem!! When the check engine light and the wrench light come on that means, IT NEEDS TO BE SERVICED! If those lights have been on for a while and then something else happens you wont realize it because the warning lights are already on!!
#65 of 130 Yeah, I agree by imacabbie Dec 06, 2007 (1:42 pm)
I agree but as I said this is a taxi cab and when, and if, service is done is out of my control. However, I also had said that in fact the car had been in the shop the day before this occurred. I don't know if the service message is automatically cleared when service is done or if the mechanic has to clear them from the the computer. If it is the later I am willing to bet that they just fail to clear the message. Again, those messages had been there for the past three months.   However, what I thought was something worth mentioning was the fact that ALL of the FEH's in our fleet that I've driven (three of them) do the same ka-chunk thing when you apply the breaks. It is not in any way a minor thing that can be ignored. I am constantly having to explain to my passengers what it is because they ask. Of course I really don't know but I just tell em that it's got over 200,000 miles and has something to do with the system charging the battery when the breaks are applied.   Also, given that our FEH's are taxi's driven 20 hrs / day 365 days per year at about 100,000 miles / year it is very unlikely anyone driving a FEH for personal use will ever have this kind of usage. In addition, these FEH are being driven at those rates in San Francisco with all of the hills that most people don't deal with. Replies to this message: mecheng1 (Dec 07, 2007 10:08 am) imacabbie (Dec 07, 2007 1:10 pm)
#66 of 130 Re: Yeah, I agree [imacabbie] by mecheng1 Dec 07, 2007 (10:08 am)
Replying to: imacabbie (Dec 06, 2007 1:42 pm) Thanks again for relating your experience.   Remember, the ka-chunk might have been happening in all 3 FEHs but they were being serviced by the same crew of mechanics. Easy to make the same maintenance mistake 3 times if you are not familiar with the vehicle design.   Please let us know what they eventually find (if you can) was the cause of the brake failure(s).   Has the fire in the wheels of that FEH caused the mechanics to take the other 2 FEHs out of service until the condition is corrected??? Replies to this message: imacabbie (Dec 07, 2007 1:10 pm)
#67 of 130 Re: Yeah, I agree [mecheng1] by imacabbie Dec 07, 2007 (1:10 pm)
Replying to: mecheng1 (Dec 07, 2007 10:08 am) Ha, out of service!? One would think that would be the responsible thing to do. However, we are talking about a taxicab company and given that there is no legal requirement for them to do so you can bet they will not. I'll let you know if I get any further information or if in fact they take the others out of service. I'm guessing, based on previous situations related to these mechanics, that they had done something wrong while working on the FEH the day before the fire that resulted in this incident. I will post any further details or information.
#68 of 130 FEH Taxi brakes on fire by scottch Dec 09, 2007 (2:40 pm)
If the brakes are not adjusted correctly (esp. parking brake), the pads can rub continuously and eventually catch on fire. What could ignite? It could be a leaky brake fluid line, the wheel bearing grease, or even the pads themselves. When seriously overheated (say 1000F) some pads release flammable vapors. Back when I was a wanna-be sports car racer, I took a street car out on a race track and managed to impress everyone.. "Dude! You were haulin' A$# out there! And your brakes were, like, on fire!!" I thought that was a figure of speech until I pulled the wheels and checked the brake pads. I poked them with a screwdriver and they crumbled like burnt toast and the ashes blew away in the wind. Fortunately I had a spare set of high-temp racing pads. Replies to this message: imacabbie (Dec 10, 2007 4:28 pm)
#69 of 130 Re: FEH Taxi brakes on fire [scottch] by imacabbie Dec 10, 2007 (4:28 pm)
Replying to: scottch (Dec 09, 2007 2:40 pm) Well, I saw my FEH taxi being driven last night by another driver. I asked him if it was running ok and he said it was running great. I him if the brakes were doing that ka-chunck thing they had been doing and he said no, that they were smooth! So, I guess that because of the fire they were forced to fix the brakes completely yah hoo!
#70 of 130 Re: Braking problem need help and comments [bubkis] by autodr Dec 11, 2007 (5:30 pm)
Replying to: bubkis (Nov 30, 2007 7:56 am) You know, I couldn't help but read this thread over. A couple of things strike me odd about this. One, this vehicle had over 200k miles on it. If saaayy the master cylinder quit suddenly causing a loss of brakes on your personal car (fill in any make or model here) with over 200,000 miles on it, would you say there there was some kind of design flaw with that? Or would you just realize that stuff with that much usage is worn totally out and time for attention?    It had warning lights on, the check engine light and wrench light may have been on for reasons very relevant to the brake system. Then, there is a private fleet repair shop servicing this vehicle, where did they get any Hybrid Escape training at? I've taken mine with Ford Motor company, where did they get their's?   The braking ability of that vehicle is a team effort between the PCM and the ABS module. Since some of the braking effort is commanded by the PCM, the wrench light and check engine lights may have been very relevant to the brakes and they were apparently ignored.   The basic hydraulic brake system on that vehicle is impacted by the fact that the engine does not run all the time, as well is the P/S system, the A/C, heat and charging system (it doesn't even have an alternator).   That vehicle needs to be serviced by personnel who have completed Escape Hybrid training. No technician should be servicing any hybrid of any make until they have completed make and model specific training. The entire vehicle is impacted by the fact that the engine doesn't run at all times, and therefore the entire vehicle is different from a conventional vehicle that we are used to.
#71 of 130 Re: POOR BRAKE PERFORMANCE [mecheng1] by autodr Dec 11, 2007 (6:23 pm)
Replying to: mecheng1 (Nov 21, 2007 6:56 am) In addition....   When you apply the brake pedal, you are not normally supplying the hydraulic pressure that engages the brakes at the wheels. You are making a hydraulic "request" for brakes. The PCM applies regen. braking at the front wheels and the ABS module applies the rear brakes. Under heavier braking demands, the front friction will also be engaged by the ABS module.   If the ABS module fails to power up, or the pump fails to run... then what some might loosely call a master cylinder then becomes a back up source of hydraulic pressure. What would normally, on most vehicles, be the master cylinder bore is called a "pedal feel emulator" on your hybrid because normally it just gives the feel of conventional brakes. But, in the event of an ABS failure, there is a check valve inside the ABS HCU (hydraulic control unit) that switches under mechanical pressure and allows the pedal feel emulator to now supply the hydraulic pressure to apply the friction at the wheels. This is a fail safe mode. It is for emergency stopping and not meant for anything more. The brake pedal efforts will be very high. You'll still have brakes, but you'll have to stand on the pedal hard to get them. It'll stop, but you might ruin a perfectly good pair of shorts.

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