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Automotive News & Views Inside Line Article Comments Article Comments: Perception Is Reality
149 messages, Last post on Feb 12, 2007 at 1:54 PM
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Article comments for Perception Is Reality - Witness the tale of two companies — Toyota and General Motors. Despite recalls and public relations woes, Toyota's image of bulletproof quality persists, and sales and market share rise. Despite concrete evidence to the contrary, GM's reputation for inferior quality remains, while sales and market share decline. (more)
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Replying to: tjw1308 (Sep 14, 2006 8:03 pm) Shoot, I've ALWAYS trusted GM cars. Not so sure about Fords. All my GM cars made it past 75K and beyond without incident.
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another issue with quality is job mentality. I had a friend who worked as a union fork lift operator for Ford. When his plant was shuttered some years ago, do to the agreement between Ford and the union, because there were boilers and generators in the plant (inactive) there had to be maintenance people. When there were maintenance people there had to be deliveries, which meant that there had to be fork lift drivers at the plant. He earned forty something dollars an hour to sit drunk (which he admitted) on a forklift for eight hours a day. Sometimes to kill time he and the other operators would move empty pallets from one side of the loading doc to the other. Can you imagine this happening at Toyota, or Mercedes? Or any other place outside of the US? We all feel bad when we see the news saying that thousands of workers will be laid off from automakers. Hey nobody wants to see someone take a hit like that, but, when unions strike to get additional incentives, they are not looking at the long term prosperity of the industry. They are looking out for 'me' now. People should make as much as they can, but not at the expense of their industry. Look at the falling popularity in the NBA, (ok maybe stagnant and sliding not falling). Guaranteed contracts have killed that sport from an entertainment level. There are to many people who get the guarantee and glide the rest of the way. Unions sport guaranteed incomes for the most part. I am sure there are ways to get rid of a union employee but I am sure you have to jump through hoops to get it. When you do not have to produce quality you won't. Detroit for the last 15 years has been punched in the mouth by asian manufactures. It hurts and they are still learning from it. Hopefully one day the lessons will sink in deep enough that anyone in any country will have the enviable choice of buying from 20 competing brands with quality as a level playing field.
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Replying to: lemko (Sep 15, 2006 4:55 am) I recall reading that Mr. Toyoda himself (the founder of the company -- the "d" was changed to a "t" for good luck) drove the Toyopet on southern CA freeways and realized the car wasn't suited for the US. So Toyota regrouped, and IIRC, they soldiered on with only the Land Cruiser for several years (more than two) after pulling the car off the market. As for domestic build quality and reliability, we Americans tolerated a lot back in the 60s before the imports could compete in the medium and large car field (unless you paid a king's ransom for a Mercedes, and even that was only "compact" size). This was well before the well-known maladies of the 70s with the Rube Goldberg emissions controls. My mother's '67 Chevy Bel Air was rife with build quality issues, including numerous dents in the body work, a missing dome light bulb, and a driver door that scraped against the A-pillar trim when opened. There was also a "jingle bell" sound that some years later was discovered by my brother to be a loose bolt in the starter. As for cheapness, granted we didn't have a mainstream Impala or top-line Caprice, the trunk was totally devoid of any carpeting or trim -- all speckle-painted metal -- what was the point of the bottom of the line Biscayne? I distinctly remember the automatic choke failing to shut off and the engine backfiring going up inclines within a couple of years of ownership. Rust started to bubble through the quarter panel behind the right rear wheel after just two Pittsburgh winters. On a cross-country trip in '71 (starting at 25K miles), the water pump failed on the way out and the alternator on the way back. Luckily back then, service stations still provided service; they weren't primarily gas & food outlets like today.
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Replying to: toddbinfla (Sep 15, 2006 5:12 am) No Union person at Ford, makes an hourly wage of $40 something dollars and hour unless he was counting all his benefits and retirement pension. I also will add that isn't your typical Union person. Hey nobody wants to see someone take a hit like that, but, when unions strike to get additional incentives, they are not looking at the long term prosperity of the industry. They are looking out for 'me' now. People should make as much as they can, but not at the expense of their industry. And management isn't looking out "for old #1" ?  Oh brother, please explain why these CEO's are making tens of millions in salary's like Ford's new CEO from Boeing ? I'm not trying to rip your post and in a perfect world both union and company would take a fair-shair. Rocky
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Replying to: 210delray (Sep 15, 2006 6:03 am) My first car was a 1968 Buick Special Deluxe. That car appeared to have no quality issues whatsoever and was still running in 1992. It was such a great car, my second car was a Buick which also turned out to be an excellent car. Today, I have a 1988 Buick Park Avenue which recently took me to Canada and back without a hiccup and my girlfriend has a 2005 LaCrosse which is holding up admirably. When better cars are build, Buick did, does, and will build them! |
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Replying to: lemko (Sep 15, 2006 6:43 am) Domestic cars from the 60s and early 70s had the advantage of wood-stove simplicity. You could fix a '67 Chevrolet with stuff you find on the side of the road. But yes, whoever said that they have a different perception because they did not "live through" the downfall of the domestics is quite right. For some American consumers (many baby boomers) they are lost to domestic automakers until the grave...once so badly burned, it's very hard to give it another try. I am guilty of this myself...try as I may to psyche myself, I couldn't overcome the fear of disaster enough, to buy a new domestic car this time around--even though I liked some of the products. I don't want to be some of the people I read about on Edmunds.com--poor devils. And a few rental car experiences with domestics, just prior to my car purchase, did not calm my fears. I think if I was shopping for a pickup truck, I would have taken the chance however. |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Sep 15, 2006 7:06 am) I feel exactly the same way as you about Acura. Liked the car, but didn't like the service I recieved. Rocky |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Sep 15, 2006 7:06 am) Fortunately, GM still had a few good cars left in its stable when I graduated in 1987. I bought a new 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic and it turned out to be an excellent car. As my income grew and my career progressed, I bought a new 1989 Cadillac Brougham. I followed these purchases with a new 1994 Cadillac DeVille and a 2002 Cadillac Seville STS. What will be my next car? Well, so far, a Cadillac DTS or Buick Lucerne CXS looks promising.
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Replying to: lemko (Sep 15, 2006 7:20 am) lemko, take my advice and wait for at least a 6 speed auto pal.  Rocky |
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...of those old cars! I could replace a water pump in my 1968 Buick and make a gasket for it in 20 minutes with a socket set and a few simple tools. Heck, spark plugs were a snap as I didn't need to be a contortionist to access them. This kind of simplicity made the AK-47 such a great rifle. You could toss a handful of sand into the breech and it would still fire whereas an M-14 or M-16 had to be stripped and cleaned due to its tight tolerances. An old Russian saying, "The best is the enemy of good enough!" |
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