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Automotive News & Views Inside Line Article Comments Article Comments: Perception Is Reality
149 messages, Last post on Feb 12, 2007 at 1:54 PM
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Article comments for Perception Is Reality - Witness the tale of two companies — Toyota and General Motors. Despite recalls and public relations woes, Toyota's image of bulletproof quality persists, and sales and market share rise. Despite concrete evidence to the contrary, GM's reputation for inferior quality remains, while sales and market share decline. (more)
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Sep 13, 2006 6:33 am) I hear a lot of talk about GM and Ford's downfall. They ALWAYS made poor quality cars. New models had major flaws that were fixed as the consumers complained. By the fifth or sixth year, quality was usually very good until they canned the model in year 7. There were no "good old days' when quality was high. Testing the vehicle thoroughly BEFORE releasing it to the public was a concept that was foreign to GM and Ford. Ironically, that concept is what allowed foreign car companies to succeed.
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Replying to: carlisimo (Sep 14, 2006 11:45 am) The CV is a horse. Probably the best mechanically of all the domestics as far as compared to a Toyota/Honda in reliability. They are also easier to work on (I've heard) then an Impala or Intrepid. Granted you'd never HAVE to work on an Avalon  j/k T
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Replying to: tjw1308 (Sep 14, 2006 2:48 pm) If the CV is a horse, then it's long past time to put it out to pasture! First of all, its proportions are from another era (literally), with that extra long rear end. Second, that old body-on-frame design really intrudes into the foot room, because the car is sunken below the rails for that long, low, wide look. Last, for all the beefiness of the frame, it didn't do a bit of good in the IIHS side test, because the high-riding barrier (simulating a pickup or SUV) completely overrode the frame and intruded deeply into the side body structure. |
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Replying to: carlisimo (Sep 14, 2006 11:45 am) I am a reserve deputy there, and anther RD is on the county board finace committee, so I have accurate info. Harry
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Replying to: oldharry (Sep 14, 2006 6:22 pm) I believe that, but the problem isn't what the cost is initially, it's how long they figure they'll be in service and the costs of maintenence. Here in AZ I think Ford has some proprietary fire extinguishing system on their police cruisers. I'm pretty sure that's primarily why we have em, out here at least. T |
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Replying to: john500 (Sep 14, 2006 12:00 pm) I disagree...in the 1960s through the mid-1970s, the domestics (except in a few cases - Chevy Corvair and Vega) were more reliable than the foreign models. In particular, the domestics with V-8s and inline sixes hooked up to an automatic transmission would run and run with minimal maintenance compared to the foreign cars, which were fussier, often more prone to rust and not as well suited to American driving conditions and habits. Where some of the imports (mostly the Germans and Swedes) excelled was in build quality, which is different from reliability. The build quality of the domestics ran the gamut from bad, to okay, to good. The domestics really started to go downhill in the 1970s, starting with the Chevrolet Vega, which was a badly botched attempt to compete with imported subcompacts, followed by patchwork attempts to meet emissions and CAFE standards that comprised reliability while hurting performance. Plus, build quality really declined as the decade progressed. |
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Replying to: grbeck (Sep 14, 2006 6:56 pm) Has Toyota/Honda ever had an unmitigated disaster of a car? And even the ones that were even a little shaky were from the distant past. You may trust GM/Ford now... but don't you always wonder in the back of your mind what's going to happen at 75k miles? Or more? T |
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Replying to: oldharry (Sep 14, 2006 6:22 pm) I can't vouch for its accuracy, but it was from this article that I read this very week. Please tell us more!
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Replying to: tjw1308 (Sep 14, 2006 8:03 pm) As for Honda and Toyota building a "disaster of car" - the Honda Odyssey has had a troublesome transmission, as has the previous generation Acura TL. Honda stepped up to the plate and extended the warranty to 100,000 miles for the transmission, but most people expect Honda products to last well beyond 100,000 miles without a major component failure. I think part of the problem with GM is UNEVEN quality across its lineup. Some lines are good (Buicks), but some lines are either mediocre or worse (Trailblazer/Envoy/Rainier; the minivans).
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Replying to: grbeck (Sep 15, 2006 3:47 am) The reality of loss of jobs for generations of employees is here and is not going to go away. From the smallest washer to the body shell, if the parts are designed right, built right and assembled right, odds are the car or truck will be right, regardless of who makes it. As much as it pains me to say this, the union and management have gutted the us automakers. Pensions need to go, unions need to go, people need to be able to hold onto their jobs through brute competence and performance. With no safety net other than doing your job right, quality will improve dramatically, costs will go down with out the legacy costs built into each car. It will certainly hurt people, but I work in the mortgage field and we have companies closing, contracting, laying off and people have to find work were they can and sometimes in other fields. That is cold hard reality and it is already going to happen in the industry anyway. |
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