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Automotive News & Views Inside Line Article Comments Article Comments: Perception Is Reality
149 messages, Last post on Feb 12, 2007 at 1:54 PM
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Article comments for Perception Is Reality - Witness the tale of two companies — Toyota and General Motors. Despite recalls and public relations woes, Toyota's image of bulletproof quality persists, and sales and market share rise. Despite concrete evidence to the contrary, GM's reputation for inferior quality remains, while sales and market share decline. (more)
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Replying to: anythngbutgm (Sep 08, 2006 4:48 pm) |
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Replying to: 99si2fun (Sep 08, 2006 4:41 pm) |
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Replying to: ampeg500 (Sep 08, 2006 1:54 pm) I've also owned German and Swedish cars, and the German cars have been the most trouble prone. Build-quality was always excellent however. Ironically, I've had better luck with the old Classic 900 SAABs than anything from Volvo. And, with regard to Korean cars, my only experience is with a Hyundai Elantra. I've owned Hondas, Toyotas, the aforementioned SAABs and Volvos, plus a 1967 Porsche 911, BMWs, Nissans, the Oldsmobile 88 Royale with the 3.8L V6, a Dodge Grand Caravan ES (all have been purchased new), and the ONLY vehicle that was perfect from the factory, and still hasn't had any mechanical failures is the Hyundai Elantra. And, amazingly, its build quality (gap and seam matching and tolerances, etc.) is a good as any Honda or Toyota I've owned. It was an eye opener for me, and really has been an excellent experience overall. Thus, my experience does not support the perception of sub-par Korean quality. Remember, the Chevrolet Equinox's engine is built in China (yes, indeed), so we all should consider its perception as well. I'm old enough (60) to remember when anything made in Japan meant junk. Then, something made in Taiwan meant the same, then Korean, then Chinese, and eventually made in India. When cars start coming in from China and India, Korean cars will begin to look very good to most people, although Chinese cars eventually will be good too. After all, the Asian culture has a tendency to demand excellence.
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Replying to: w9cw (Sep 08, 2006 6:37 pm) GM has come a long way, but their cars still look and feel cheaper compared to most imports. Ignoring the recalls, there does seem to be a general downward shift in the look and feel of Toyotas. I looked inside a newer Camry and was unimpressed compared to the Accord and earlier Camrys. I also saw a brand new Yaris (complete with temp tags) being towed for repairs the other day. My wife had a Tercel several years ago that the dealer had to buy back because it was so plagued with problems. Perceptions are indeed odd, and shaped by the kinds and types of people who buy the cars. Hyundai and Kia aren't that reliable long term, but their satisfaction (at least according to Consumer Reports) is pretty high. Could it be that buyers feel they got a great bargain or that they have more first time car buyers who don't have anything in their past to base a satisfaction assessment on? Frankly, I don't buy the argument that Honda and Toyota owners cut their cars more slack than the average American owner. I do think that they may be more likely to remain repeat buyers if they get a lemon, however.
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Replying to: crutnacker (Sep 08, 2006 8:20 pm) |
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The efforts that Hyundai has made to improve are certainly commendable. But it has been a 15 year battle for them and they still aren't all the way there for consumer confidence. But Hyundai only had a few years with poor reliabilty/quality. Just think how tough and how long it's going to take GM to erase 10 times the amount of stigma to overcome!
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Replying to: anythngbutgm (Sep 09, 2006 6:58 am) I really want to believe GM is being re-born, and it HAS made improvements in some models...but my last rental of a Monte Carlo (that's what they gave me) suggests that this is NOOOOO Camry....... You know, the Monty had all of GM's good and bad qualities, just like 10 years ago.....GREAT power in a value package but really annoying design issues (try to back up with that silly wing jutting up to a narrow back windshield, OR try to get in the car without fracturing your skull on the roof). So in this one GM case at least, my perception and my reality were really in synch. What I thought was what I got, both good and bad. I keep hearing about some Toyota problems, but so many of my friends own Toyota products and I keep asking them and asking them what's up, and it's always the same "fine" "no problem" "good" "great". A small sample true, but random enough to make me wonder if we should all discard these "initial quality" surveys and stick to auto magazines or websites' LONG TERM tests only to make our perceptions.
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I recently needed a rental w/passenger space, from Avis I was able to get an '06 Toyota Sienna (sp?), anyway, I was excited about this because I had never driven a Toyota in my life. I kept the vehicle for 3 days and put 1,500 miles on it. I rented the vehicle in Tennesse after a wreck with my personal car, which is an SUV. Honestly I had no problems with this vehicle, but also honestly, I was let down due to my high expectations, and my perception of this vehicle was just "blah" ! After hearing for years how superior Toyota is to their competition, with better materials, better engines, etc. I can honestly say no Big Deal was found here. The interior of this vehicle had a nifty shifter on the console, I liked that. However, the drivers seat was very uncomfortable for the long haul (I'm just an average guy  195 lb. and 6 foot tall). The radio was terrible, it was an AM/FM w/MP3 capability and I think it had a compact disc player as well, anyway reception was bad while driving in wide open area's such as Ohio, where there is a lot of stations broadcasting. And it just got worse anywhere else (I expected this though), as we were in the Mountains. The rest of the interior was no great shakes. Just average materials and some very ugly trim plastics. I did notice trim parts that looked worn after only 22,000 miles on this van. Having driven GM & Chrysler Mini-Vans, I didn't see any better build quailty on this Toyota than that of their competition. As for the engine, it was noisy, and it doesn't like to climb hills, constant downshifting was annoying, especially going back over the mountains. But this just didn't happen in the mountains, getting this thing into passing gear took way to long and got way to loud, even on the flat highways of Ohio. When the engine wasn't busy making noise, the tires were. This is one of the most noisey vehicles I have ever driven, you could not carry on conversation with those in the 3rd row seat at all, and I even found myself saying "What ?" an awful lot to those in the 2nd row as well. That was annoying and I did not experience that in my '00 Voyager or '02 Montana vans. All 3 adult passengers commented on how noisy the vehicle was. Wind noise coming of the rear view mirrors also contributed to the passenger compartment being an unfriendly place to be on the expressway. I did appreciate the deep well in the rear cargo area, that's a good thing. Exterior styling is a matter of everyone's personal taste, I liked it from the back, it was ugly in the front, like 2 different guy's designed the van. Anyway, to talk of "perceptions" in this forum, my perception of Toyota is that they are just average, not ahead of the competition as I expected. I prefer the Chrysler van over this Toyota, and liked my '02 Montana even more. Having this perception of the Sienna, and after reading about their recent recalls and new program delays, is that Toyota as a whole is just an average automaker. Nothing better, nothing worse than the competition. I prefer to buy cars form the traditional 3, and I'll continue to do that. I have always had good luck with GM, Ford and Chrysler vehicles that I have either owned or leased. I know I only experienced the mini-van, but I will try another Toyota with the next rental, a Camry perhaps, just to see what all the bragging is about. |
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Replying to: anythngbutgm (Sep 08, 2006 4:44 pm) http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/31/2006-least-reliable-luxury-cars/ |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Sep 09, 2006 9:22 am) The perverbial icing was the window sticker that was left in the glove box. The G6 was considerably less than an 06 Honda Civics Ex/Corolla.
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