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BMW 3-Series AWD vs. BMW 5-Series AWD

28 messages,  Last post on Oct 02, 2006 at 5:54 AM

You are in the BMW 3-Series Forum.

What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, BMW 5 Series, Sedan, Wagon

Messages Page 2 of 3

#9 of 28 Re: Ride quality of 530Xi vs 330Xi [bruceomega] by markcincinnati

Sep 06, 2006 (4:56 am)

Replying to: bruceomega (Sep 03, 2006 5:43 am)
The wheelbase differences alone account for differences, not that that alone is a bad thing.
 
I would expect the 3 series to handle better.
 
I would expect the 5 series to ride better.
 
But, "better" is a relative term -- for some what is considered technically better, may be personally more or less responsive or comfortable.
 
If possible could you be more specific, and if possible I'll attempt to respond. If I can't, I would assume there are others who can respond to your question.

#10 of 28 Re: Ride quality of 530Xi vs 330Xi [markcincinnati] by bruceomega

Sep 06, 2006 (6:21 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Sep 06, 2006 4:56 am)
Thanks for the response. Reason I am asking is I am looking for contingency options if I can't solve the harsh ride issue I am having with my 2006 330Xi. Its a great car, except the bottoming out on even moderate sized bumps is causing me to have second thoughts on keeping it. I do not have an issue with the firmness of the ride, but its the jarring, bone rattling bottoming out on real world roads that I find unacceptable on a car at this level.
 
The Edmunds forums have been very helpful in idenfiying the RFTs as the likely culprit, and a change in brands from Bridgestones to Continentals may mitigate the issue. If not, I want to explore what other AWD cars have similar handling but ride less harshly.
 
Thanks
Bruce

#11 of 28 Re: Ride quality of 530Xi vs 330Xi [bruceomega] by markcincinnati

Sep 06, 2006 (11:44 am)

Replying to: bruceomega (Sep 06, 2006 6:21 am)
BMW's X sedans (5X and 3X currently, but soon to be joined by a 7X) do NOT offer sport packages in the sense that most companies use the term. The sport package on a RWD 3 or 5 actually includes firmer springs, swaybars, "shocks" and lower profile, stiffer and larger wheels and tires.
 
The X versions, in contrast, use Sport Package to mean, "Sport Appearance" or Sport-Like, but if you have issues with the 3X and 5X which have the "comfort" set up in terms of the suspension and tire/wheel bits (although these BMW's with the sport set ups, usually do have plus sized wheels/tires which do improve the turn in and probably does degrade, somewhat, the ride quality) you would probably really dislike a true sport package option.
 
That is, if you don't like your 3 series ride, noise, vibration and harshness or whatever it is you don't like, you would really NOT like it if it had a true Sport Package -- or so it would seem, for some folks notice EVERYTHING when they have a sport suspension.
 
The longer wheelbase of the 5X may soften things up a bit, but perhaps -- if you can afford this -- a tire swap would be an approach that would have merit before you made the much bigger financial plunge of getting out of your current car, most probably with a depreciation hit to the wallet.
 
I regret NOT having the sport suspension in my 2005 Audi A6, but I did get the ultra low profile wheels and tires thinking it would be a good compromise of ride and handling.
 
In my case, I would have preferred the slightly stiffer sport suspension -- and it was only $250 more.
 
My wife has an X3 with a true sport package and it can be bone jarring on pock-marked roads, but usually the extra stiffness is appreciated by the two of us.
 
At this point, I can tell you I have driven both the 3 and 5 and I found the 530xi that I drove to be every bit a quiet and comfortable as my Audi A6 -- but, as I recall, the 5X had 17" wheels on it, and I thought the darn thing was under-tired. My assumption, though, is that the 17" wheels were fitted with slightly higher profile tires and that alone has been known to make a difference.
 
Trial and more test drive and a possible tire swap may be all you can do. Getting about $800 worth of tires (mounted and balanced perfectly, etc may make this a bit more) and trying them out is "an option" you may want to at least consider all things being equal.
 
The 330XI vs the 530XI have many similarities and almost as many differences. I would expect the 530 to feel somewhat less responsive -- 'cause it is. I would expect the ride to be better in the 5, but the handling less crisp than the 3.
 
You gives and you gets, that is.
 
I've read about these RFT's, and they seem to be either not liked or folks are neutral about them. Rarely have I seen any praise heaped on them.
 
I hope this helps in some small way.

#12 of 28 Re: Ride quality of 530Xi vs 330Xi [markcincinnati] by bruceomega

Sep 06, 2006 (1:13 pm)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Sep 06, 2006 11:44 am)
Interesting, we have a 2006 X3 that is my wife's car. We specifically avoided the sports package, but did get the optional 18" wheels (without the stiffer suspension). Our X3 has the same model tires as my 330Xi, Bridgestone EL42s, but they are not RFTs and are slightly higher profile (50 vs 45). Our X3 does not bottom out on the bumps that my 330Xi does, and I like it's ride.
 
Thanks
Bruce

#13 of 28 Re: Ride quality of 530Xi vs 330Xi [bruceomega] by shipo

Sep 06, 2006 (2:41 pm)

Replying to: bruceomega (Sep 06, 2006 1:13 pm)
I am really having a difficult time with the language that you are using to describe the problems you are experiencing with your E90. When you say "Bottom Out" do you mean:
 
1) The nose and/or tail drag on the pavement when you transition from, say, a steep driveway to a crowned road?
2) The central portion of the body pan of the car scrapes on the ground when traversing a particularly nasty speed bump?
3) Any portion of the underside of the car makes contact with the road surface when the car is forced down against its springs such as from a dip in the road?
4) The suspension components "bottom out" against their rebound or "jounce" bumpers individually or collectively when rough road surfaces are encountered?
 
Best Regards,
Shipo

#14 of 28 Re: Ride quality of 530Xi vs 330Xi [shipo] by bruceomega

Sep 07, 2006 (7:40 am)

Replying to: shipo (Sep 06, 2006 2:41 pm)
I may not be using the right terminology, but number 4 above is what I am trying to convey. I am not experiencing any of 1, 2, or 3.
 
Basically, if I go over a moderate size or larger road irregularity (pot hole, discontinuity in road surface, freeze/thaw heaving, construction bumps, etc.), which is common in my area, and at the same speeds as the other traffic, then my 330Xi will have a sudden jolt that jars the car, makes a loud disconcerting noise, and feels like the suspension has reached the limits of travel and is slamming into the body.
 
On smaller irregularities, the ride is pleasantly firm and the car does not bottom out.
 
I don't have this problem with our X3.
 
We previously had a pair of 2001 330Xi's. They could be a bit firm, and could hit the suspension limits on the infrequent really bad bump, but they did not bottom out on more normal bumps like my current 330Xi.
 
I have an example if that would help. If I am driving north on the Geroge Washington Parkway in Northern Virginia, and I go under the 14st bridge, before the exit for Memorial Bridge there is an overpass. The overpass is concrete and the parkway itself is macadam. Where the parkway road surface meets the concrete overpass, there is a lip, or discontinuity in height especially in the left lane. This is the normal road condition, has been this way for a long time. If I go over this lip at 50 - 60 mph in my 330Xi, the prevailing traffic speed, the car shudders. To avoid this, I need to slow down to about 30 mph, in which case I feel the bump but the car does not bottom out. The problem is the other traffic does not need to slow down for this, and they ride right up on my tail and honk their horn.
 
Is there a better term to use than bottoming out?
 
FYI, I just ordered a set of the Continental OEM all season RFTs from Tirerack, hoping they will help mitigate the issue.
 
Thanks
Bruce

#15 of 28 Re: Ride quality of 530Xi vs 330Xi [bruceomega] by shipo

Sep 07, 2006 (8:03 am)

Replying to: bruceomega (Sep 07, 2006 7:40 am)
Without driving your car and experiencing the problem for myself I'd say that the new tires you have on order will probably offer you no relief from this problem (unless one of your current RunFlats is, well, flat). Why? Because my bet is that you have a suspension problem, specifically I'm guessing that you have a bad strut (I'm assuming that you only feel the suspension reaching the limits of its travel in the front end).
 
I'm thinking that you should insist that your dealer should identify and replace the bad strut(s). If they balk at doing that I would then insist that the service manager drive with you over the bump you described, both in your car and in another 330xi. If that doesn't illustrate the problem well enough to them, then it will be time to escalate this problem to BMW-NA.
 
There are no "ifs, ands or buts" about this situation; your suspension should not be reaching the limits of its travel with such a trivial road surface imperfection.
 
Best Regards,
Shipo

#16 of 28 Re: Ride quality of 530Xi vs 330Xi [shipo] by bruceomega

Sep 07, 2006 (12:31 pm)

Replying to: shipo (Sep 07, 2006 8:03 am)
Shipo,
 
I think checking the car for suspension damage is a very good idea, thank you, as the air pressure is fine. I took my car in to the dealer on 8 Aug and they rotated the tires and did an alignment. The service note said something about a minor adjustment in the suspension, but I don't know how telling that is w.r.t. damage / bad strut.
 
My salesman, who has always been helpful, is trying to link me up with what I think is the general manager of the dealership (he's above the service manager), so I can talk directly with him about the problem I am having and to ask them to do a thorough check for damage.
 
Your opinion that the new tires may not solve the harshness problem agress with that of Tirerack. I do have a secondary problem with road noise, that I am told is caused by cupping on the current tires, so I'm hoping the Continentals will at least help with that. Tirerack thinks they will.
 
Bruce

#17 of 28 Re: Ride quality of 530Xi vs 330Xi [bruceomega] by bruceomega

Sep 15, 2006 (8:25 am)

Replying to: bruceomega (Sep 07, 2006 12:31 pm)
To follow up, I posted in the RFT thread that replacing the Bridgestones with Continental OEM RF tires really helped with the issues I was having. Didn't make my 330Xi a Lexus (thank goodness), but it did make the car civil, so I don't have an immediate need for an alternative vehicle.
 
However, I am still curious about the differences between the 3 and 5 series AWDs in case I get the new car bug in the future. The 330Xi is no longer listed on the BMW web site, but from what I remember their web site showed the 530Xi and 330Xi having identical front seat leg room and identical weights, even though the 5 series is a slightly larger car. Does that make sense?
 
Bruce

#18 of 28 Re: Ride quality of 530Xi vs 330Xi [bruceomega] by shipo

Sep 15, 2006 (8:38 am)

Replying to: bruceomega (Sep 15, 2006 8:25 am)
The weights between the E60 and the E90 are indeed nearly identical (assuming similar engine and trim levels) as the E60 uses a significant amount of aluminum throughout the body. In fact, IIRC, the entire front end including all weight bearing members are made out of aluminum. The E90 is primarily made out of steel and as such is heavier for its size.
 
In the case of the 5er, the benefits of using the aluminum are quite obvious; however, there are potential issues with getting one fixed should it get crunched. Most body shops, even high end ones, have little problem dealing with steel body parts, however, working with aluminum just ain't the same. When Audi and BMW first started offering more widely available aluminum cars I heard that the insurance companies were charging higher rates vis-à-vis similar cars with steel bodies. Those reports are now a couple of years old so it might could well be that the learning curve is over and the rates have come down, however, it is indeed something to consider (and ask your insurance agent about) prior to opting for a new 5-Series.
 
Best Regards,
Shipo

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