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Sedans Pontiac G8 2008 Pontiac G8
1265 messages, Last post on Jul 21, 2009 at 10:14 AM
You are in the Pontiac G8 Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: emale (May 28, 2008 6:18 am) I don't doubt that those who constantly lease just to drive something unique every three years might try a G8 GT under a lease. I'd like to know how many will feel BUYING a G8 GT to keep for the next 8 years if gasoline prices continue towards $6 per gallon. GM cannot survive at its current level of expenditure (labor and debt included) relative to its market capitalization by producing niche cars at runs of 20-40,000 models per year. GM is not in the financial position of Porsche (cash healthy) which can afford to make a few hundred GT-2s or GTs. Of course it's not difficult to desire many niche cars like the Solstice or the G8. However the future of RWD in mainstream mass market cars at GM in North America is in real question now that the Zeta platform will only be used by the Holden Commodore/ G8 and Camaro . In its home market Holden's Commodore line is getting clobbered in sales by its FWD competition, the Toyota Aurion and the Asian market Maxima. The STS has been canceled and GM just announce it WILL NOT produce a RWD Impala and Buick off the Zeta platform as it had claimed. Which leaves Cadillac's CTS, built of the Cadillac exclusive Sigma II platform, as the only other RWD passenger sedan in GMs stable with a foreseeable future. As a bread and butter division Pontiac division has to sell a lot of bread and butter G5 and G6s to draw attention to the more exclusive Solstice and G8. And it hasn't been able to achieve that objective yet (despite the Pontiac G6 give-away debacle on Oprah). That's precisely why the LS-2 powered Monaro (re-badged) did not sell more than 13,000 cars in 3 years. With spiraling fuel prices and a slumping real estate market I believe that GM's future as a mainstream auto manufacturer future depends on whether it can sell hundreds of thousand of Epsilon II based next generation Pontiac G6s, Saturn Auras and Chevy Malibus. Again I see it as filling the same niche in the sporty mid-size sedan market as a previous American sporty sedan that I actually bought and owned for 8 yrs., the Taurus SHO. Mainstream mid-size sedan with high-performance parts added. Undercut the German competition by 30% in price. Except that now the same segment has much more competition from Acura, Lexus and Infiniti (and even Cadillac) which it did not have to face then and gasoline is 300% more expensive. |
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Replying to: athens (May 28, 2008 9:11 am) My understanding is that GM is selling G8s ( under all different names ) world-wide, at roughly the current plant capacity. One open question is: "Can Pontiac survive?" With the replacement for the Grand Prix AND the Bonneville - that is production-constrained? |
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Replying to: athens (May 28, 2008 9:11 am) Any references? |
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Replying to: athens (May 28, 2008 9:11 am) FYI, GM also sells the Commodore/G8 in China as Buick Park Avenue (considered upscale/on par with MB and BMW by Chinese) and in the middle east with a Chevy badge. Also, Cadillac STS and DTS will be consolidated into one Zeta-chassis car in a year or two... and will probably retain the DTS nameplate. GM also has under development the "Alpha" chassis, which is a BMW 3-series-size rear-wheel-drive vehicle to be shared by several divisions. Speculation is that this chassis will spawn coupe, sedan and, possibly, wagon/hatch variations expected to start arriving by MY 2012. They will be limited to 4- and 6-cylinder engines. |
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Replying to: white6 (May 28, 2008 3:09 pm) It'll be my weekend and summer car, my LGT Wagon will continue as my daily and the Armada as my extended family and Toy Hauler. -mike
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Replying to: white6 (May 28, 2008 3:09 pm) Or you leased it and are getting out of the lease on the 335i? While $5-$6 gasoline may not affect you, it will significantly affect the disposable household income of the average wage earner in the US (who earns $40K per year) who traditionally shops brands like Pontiac. A neighbor of some relatives who owns a large Mercedes Porsche dealership on the affluent North Shore suburbs inChicago emphatically states that the only product that is currently selling well at their dealership is the SMART car. There is an 8 month backorder on the SMART car. Since Pontiac has traditionally catered to the bread and butter American car buying consumer that wanted a little more sportiness than Olds or Buick offered but couldn't step up to Chevy Corvette territory, it is Pontiac's base clientele that will definitely be affected by the rising fuel costs. Gas prices are even affecting BMW's and Mercedes buyers. How else can one explain the sudden epidemic of threads on these and other forums which sport titles: "How will $4 and up gas prices affect you?" or "What kind of mileage do you get with your G35?" I hate to beat it to death but selling 20-40K large displacement RWD re-badged niche cars will not ensure the survival of the marque. Only 500,000 + G5 and G6s can ensure Pontiac's future. To move the Pontiac marque upmarket is commendable. Initially GM should have introduced an upmarket entry level car. The attempt to market the G6 as significantly upmarket from its predecessor, the Grand Am, has not worked well. Even the sharp looking Solstice didn't do the trick. I remain convinced that were GM to have introduced the next generation G6 on the much lauded FWD Epsilon II (see Opel Insignia) platform in North America, that would have laid that missing foundation needed to draw entry level luxury sporty sedan shoppers into Pontiac showrooms. BMW entry level E36 series changed that company's fortunes. That car's success (and relatively cheap gasoline in America) made the fantasy 650csi and the Z8 a reality. In its infinite (pardon the pun, not Infiniti) wisdom, GM in this instance has done the converse. Do you really think that the couple thousand Middle Easterners (looking for a car that is a bit of a novelty) buying Holden Commodores exported as Chevy Caprices brings the "Caprice name" to the market level of the Mercedes Benz S55 in say the UAE?
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"I remain convinced that were GM to have introduced the next generation G6 on the much lauded FWD Epsilon II (see Opel Insignia) platform in North America, that would have laid that missing foundation needed to draw entry level luxury sporty sedan shoppers into Pontiac showrooms. Can you guys take the discussion of the future of GM to the G5 or G6 board? As you mentioned, G8 is not the mass market car that provide the bread and butter of a pontiac franchise. But I fail to see how this discussion help me understand whether I want to buy a G8 or not. May be you guys can write to GM board of director and explain how they should have run their business? But what you are interest in discussing has very little to do with a msg board like ours here. I have an 05 Mecedes CLK 55 convertible, an 07 Infiniti G35 and an 04 Honda Accord. And our lease for the CLK is up in next month, G35 up in May 09 and I am interested in a G8 (may be..) to replace the CLK or the G35.. Just because you won't make the same choice, please don't make the assumption that other won't.. That is a job for Pontiac marketing department and again has very little to do with whether a reader of this msg board want a G8 or not. |
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| i agree with the above post...athens, if you have an axe to grind with GM...please go start it somewhere else. i'd rather talk about the g8 with folks who have or want one. i could give a lick less whether gm is doing the right thing or not in the grand scheme of things... | |
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Replying to: paisan (May 28, 2008 6:15 pm) Regards, OW |
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Replying to: athens (May 28, 2008 9:11 am) The Aurion is Toyota's attempt to muscle into the large car segment in Australia, though it's really only a 6 cylinder Camry. The Aurion has slipped downward in sales here since its launch last year and it's now selling at just over half the volume of the Commodore. As far as the Nissan Maxima goes it's never threatened anyone in sales volumes. It has never made the top 20 best selling cars list in Australia. I personally think the Maxima is a good car but it achieves very modest sale volumes here. |
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