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Sedans Pontiac G8 2008 Pontiac G8
1266 messages, Last post on Dec 07, 2009 at 12:07 PM
You are in the Pontiac G8 Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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i'm usually the last one to run to detroit's defense. however, when cars like the g8 and challenger, etc, were on the drawing board some 2 to 3 years ago fuel prices were much cheaper than they are now. not too many people expected gas to reach 4 bucks a gallon in such a short time. nonetheless, detroit did bury their heads in the high profit truck/suv sand, and recent energy cost spikes have really hurt them because of the declining market for said vehicles. but, anyway, the real reason for this post is to point out that the costs to engineer/produce the g8 were likely relatively minor. the assembly plant was already in existence in australia...and several other vehicles are built at the same plant; and on the same platform/chassis. therefore, gm is not solely reliant on the success of the g8 to make a profit off this platform. the pontiac division needed some excitement, and i think the g8 helps in those regards...even if it isn't the most thrifty vehicle around...
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Replying to: emale (May 24, 2008 11:13 pm) The auto industry in the US merely wanted to continue to make profits using antiquated car designs until the moment our Government would drop the axe. This moment was inevitable. This was not the Myanmar cyclone, people. It has been a reality for the last 30+ years since the OPEC Oil Embargo of 1973. When we are constantly in a state of beligerency with the Arab nations and Russia ( and now Venezuela) who control the spigot on the resource which our large displacement cars and SUVs need what other result would any reasonable person expect. The Big Three have had to deal with it in Europe for 40 years because the fuel prices are so heavily taxed to offset their trade deficit based on oil importation from the Mid-east and to pay for public transport which can serve the vast majority of their population. Just look at the products that Opel, Vauxhall and Ford have offered there for decades. Fuel efficient. Else you pay a 35% tax (paid up front) and $2000 per year to register the car and another $3000 per year in insurance to drive a gas guzzler. Exxon-Mobil and Shell have had to drill into the ocean sea beds at depths of 10,000 feet for the past 10 years. Those companies used to pay $100,000 per day to rent the drill rigs. Now they pay $500,000 per day to lease the same rigs. That doesn't even include the per day cost to actually run the rig. You really believe the Big Three do not have access to this information or the geological reports? The Big 3 (and to be fair, foreign auto makers who exported mots of their gas swillers to the US) were just betting on our Government doing nothing about it because of their cozy relations and legislators living in the fantasy that Americans should have their fuel gulping toys and no one really cars about the state of public transport in the US. $4.50 per gallon gasoline, my friends, is NO GAS PRICE SPIKE. Considering that the per barrel price of un-refined crude oil has jumped by 100% since 2 years ago, we should really be at $5.20 per gallon retail. So Exxon-Mobil and BP and Shell are not deceiving us when they claim they are taking less profit now than two years ago on the final refined product. With OPEC predicting $200 per barrel costs we should be prepared to pay $5.50 per gallon by next summer. When the smoke alarm in your home goes off, you can smell the smoke and feel the heat of the flames, but you run to save your 30 year old beer can collection you are betting against the odds of surviving? This is precisely what the auto industry in America has done. And it has occurred largely because the American public preferred EXCITEMENT over ACCOUNTABILITY and RESPONSIBILITY. And the American auto industry was feeding it to the American public as it was financed by the consumers' tremendous personal debt. No matter whether an addictive drug is expensive or relatively cheap, the withdrawal will always be expensive. |
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Replying to: athens (May 23, 2008 1:26 pm) It's just in that same way that neither the Infiniti M nor even a BMW 550i directly compete with a Maserati Quattroporte or a Bentley Continental.” = = = I do not mean to suggest that the G8 GT is a ‘direct competitor’ to the BMW 550 or the Infiniti M45. Perhaps I was not clear. Basically, I see the G8 GT as providing a very large portion of the dynamic capabilities & related ‘goodness’ of the 550 & the M45 – at a relatively small portion of the price. Anyone who really does want ALL that the 550 or M45 offers ( I freely admit that the M45 has a ‘nicer’ interior, for example ) must pay BMW or Infiniti prices. This seems fair to me. If you want ( as I do ) the acceleration, handling, steering feel, braking and related aspects – in a package with comfortable & supportive seating for 4 adults – but do not also require ( or wish to pay for ) a plethora ( ? ) of luxury and amenities . . . well the G8 GT appears to fill the bill. It is certainly not that I don’t appreciate or see value in many of the luxury aspects of such sedans as the 550 & M45 – merely that one cannot buy a “strippo” 550 or M45. Meaning: a 550 or M45 with all the ‘stop, go, turn’ stuff, but without all the associated BMW-ness and Infiniti-ness. Although I am a professional, ( not a Dr. or Lawyer ) and although ( apparently, since I drive a $50K+ car ) I can ‘afford’ a 535 or M45 – or even a 550. . . I ( strongly ) prefer the G8 GT’s approach. Would I buy mine equipped with a HUD & cooled as well as heated seats, if those were offered as separate options? Assuming a reasonable price: Yes. But for just over $30K, I am very happy with what the G8 GT does offer – and at the price point, I can easily live without what it does not offer. And that looks like my likely next vehicle – an ’09 in 4 or 5 months. YMMV. - Ray Never intending to call the 550 or M45 direct competitors . . . |
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personally i think the g8 gt will or does appeal to a larger audience than anybody might have expected. i already can think of two people who traded an infiniti and a bmw for a new g8 gt...
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Replying to: emale (May 28, 2008 6:18 am) I don't doubt that those who constantly lease just to drive something unique every three years might try a G8 GT under a lease. I'd like to know how many will feel BUYING a G8 GT to keep for the next 8 years if gasoline prices continue towards $6 per gallon. GM cannot survive at its current level of expenditure (labor and debt included) relative to its market capitalization by producing niche cars at runs of 20-40,000 models per year. GM is not in the financial position of Porsche (cash healthy) which can afford to make a few hundred GT-2s or GTs. Of course it's not difficult to desire many niche cars like the Solstice or the G8. However the future of RWD in mainstream mass market cars at GM in North America is in real question now that the Zeta platform will only be used by the Holden Commodore/ G8 and Camaro . In its home market Holden's Commodore line is getting clobbered in sales by its FWD competition, the Toyota Aurion and the Asian market Maxima. The STS has been canceled and GM just announce it WILL NOT produce a RWD Impala and Buick off the Zeta platform as it had claimed. Which leaves Cadillac's CTS, built of the Cadillac exclusive Sigma II platform, as the only other RWD passenger sedan in GMs stable with a foreseeable future. As a bread and butter division Pontiac division has to sell a lot of bread and butter G5 and G6s to draw attention to the more exclusive Solstice and G8. And it hasn't been able to achieve that objective yet (despite the Pontiac G6 give-away debacle on Oprah). That's precisely why the LS-2 powered Monaro (re-badged) did not sell more than 13,000 cars in 3 years. With spiraling fuel prices and a slumping real estate market I believe that GM's future as a mainstream auto manufacturer future depends on whether it can sell hundreds of thousand of Epsilon II based next generation Pontiac G6s, Saturn Auras and Chevy Malibus. Again I see it as filling the same niche in the sporty mid-size sedan market as a previous American sporty sedan that I actually bought and owned for 8 yrs., the Taurus SHO. Mainstream mid-size sedan with high-performance parts added. Undercut the German competition by 30% in price. Except that now the same segment has much more competition from Acura, Lexus and Infiniti (and even Cadillac) which it did not have to face then and gasoline is 300% more expensive. |
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Replying to: athens (May 28, 2008 9:11 am) My understanding is that GM is selling G8s ( under all different names ) world-wide, at roughly the current plant capacity. One open question is: "Can Pontiac survive?" With the replacement for the Grand Prix AND the Bonneville - that is production-constrained? |
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Replying to: athens (May 28, 2008 9:11 am) Any references? |
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Replying to: athens (May 28, 2008 9:11 am) FYI, GM also sells the Commodore/G8 in China as Buick Park Avenue (considered upscale/on par with MB and BMW by Chinese) and in the middle east with a Chevy badge. Also, Cadillac STS and DTS will be consolidated into one Zeta-chassis car in a year or two... and will probably retain the DTS nameplate. GM also has under development the "Alpha" chassis, which is a BMW 3-series-size rear-wheel-drive vehicle to be shared by several divisions. Speculation is that this chassis will spawn coupe, sedan and, possibly, wagon/hatch variations expected to start arriving by MY 2012. They will be limited to 4- and 6-cylinder engines. |
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Replying to: white6 (May 28, 2008 3:09 pm) It'll be my weekend and summer car, my LGT Wagon will continue as my daily and the Armada as my extended family and Toy Hauler. -mike
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Replying to: white6 (May 28, 2008 3:09 pm) Or you leased it and are getting out of the lease on the 335i? While $5-$6 gasoline may not affect you, it will significantly affect the disposable household income of the average wage earner in the US (who earns $40K per year) who traditionally shops brands like Pontiac. A neighbor of some relatives who owns a large Mercedes Porsche dealership on the affluent North Shore suburbs inChicago emphatically states that the only product that is currently selling well at their dealership is the SMART car. There is an 8 month backorder on the SMART car. Since Pontiac has traditionally catered to the bread and butter American car buying consumer that wanted a little more sportiness than Olds or Buick offered but couldn't step up to Chevy Corvette territory, it is Pontiac's base clientele that will definitely be affected by the rising fuel costs. Gas prices are even affecting BMW's and Mercedes buyers. How else can one explain the sudden epidemic of threads on these and other forums which sport titles: "How will $4 and up gas prices affect you?" or "What kind of mileage do you get with your G35?" I hate to beat it to death but selling 20-40K large displacement RWD re-badged niche cars will not ensure the survival of the marque. Only 500,000 + G5 and G6s can ensure Pontiac's future. To move the Pontiac marque upmarket is commendable. Initially GM should have introduced an upmarket entry level car. The attempt to market the G6 as significantly upmarket from its predecessor, the Grand Am, has not worked well. Even the sharp looking Solstice didn't do the trick. I remain convinced that were GM to have introduced the next generation G6 on the much lauded FWD Epsilon II (see Opel Insignia) platform in North America, that would have laid that missing foundation needed to draw entry level luxury sporty sedan shoppers into Pontiac showrooms. BMW entry level E36 series changed that company's fortunes. That car's success (and relatively cheap gasoline in America) made the fantasy 650csi and the Z8 a reality. In its infinite (pardon the pun, not Infiniti) wisdom, GM in this instance has done the converse. Do you really think that the couple thousand Middle Easterners (looking for a car that is a bit of a novelty) buying Holden Commodores exported as Chevy Caprices brings the "Caprice name" to the market level of the Mercedes Benz S55 in say the UAE?
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